[FRIAM] Nick's monism kick
Frank Wimberly
wimberly3 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 23 16:49:45 EDT 2022
Yes, and I sent you a brief description of freshman year at Carnegie Tech
in1961-62.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Fri, Sep 23, 2022, 1:24 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Did you guys not get this?
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* thompnickson2 at gmail.com <thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2022 2:59 PM
> *To:* 'Mike Bybee' <mikebybee at earthlink.net>; 'Eric Charles' <
> eric.phillip.charles at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* 'Jon Zingale' <jonzingale at gmail.com>; friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* RE: Nick's monism kick
>
>
>
> I think this comes very close to our discussion on operationism. My
> response to eric’s challenge on that score was his “quantity” argument,
> which he himself disavowed. The attempt to identify a concept by a single
> operation or even by operations within a single paradigm is operationism,
> which I, as a pragmatist, condemn. However, the sum of all conceivable
> operations is the pragmaticist “meaning” of the concept. Now, in
> disavowing this “Quantitative” distinction between operationism and
> pragmatism, Eric seems to be reaching for some “essence” which is aside
> from all operations that might flow from adoption of the concept. I wrote
> you both about this, and neither has replied.
>
>
>
> Now, as to the dialogue. I would be proud of the student by the fact that
> she has carried anything from the psycho building to the chemistry
> building. Most students go through a complete brainwashing when they pass
> out into the quadrangle. Finally, I would be proud of her holding her
> ground with the lab tech, even when such heavy artillery is brought to bear
> on her.
>
>
>
> As to the substance, I find the Lab Tech’s response oddly incoherent.
> First he appears to ding her for her flat affect. “Look, kid, some
> consequences are more… um… consequential than others. Don’t you feel the
> heat of that explosion?” On that point, I agree with him. Emotional
> consequences are consequences. We could do experiments on them.
>
>
>
> But then he seems to be dinging her for not understanding that the dire
> consequences arise from molecular events rather than from bad lab
> technique, as if they become more consequention when they are understood in
> atomic terms. As if their “dangerousness” is attached to their
> “atomicness”. This argument felt to me like some sort of creepy
> essentialism, I and wanted no part of it. I would have been even more
> proud of the student if she had responded, “Respectfully, sir, that makes
> no sense to me at all. What is truly dangerous here, what I must be
> steadfastly warned against, is mixing these two substances under particular
> circumstances, or even composing a mixture that might, though inattention,
> find itself under those circumstances. True, atomic principles might help
> me anticipate dangers with other solutions, but the danger is in the
> explosion, not in the atoms.
>
> !
>
> In my year at Harvard, two of my classmates were thrown out for a
> chemistry experiment pursued in their dorm rooms that resulted in an
> explosion. The students defended themselves before the Dean (my uncle, as
> it happened), on the ground that the two chemicals involved *could not
> have exploded! *The chemistry department agreed. Nonetheless, the Dean
> threw they out, but with a Deanly wink encouraging application for
> re-admission in the following year.
>
>
>
> Have I answered your question?
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Bybee <mikebybee at earthlink.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2022 1:03 PM
> *To:* 'Nicholas Thompson' <thompnickson2 at gmail.com>; 'Eric Charles' <
> eric.phillip.charles at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* 'Jon Zingale' <jonzingale at gmail.com>; friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* RE: Nick's monism kick
> *Importance:* High
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I’ve been waiting for Nick to weigh in on this.
>
> Is it about time for the new academic conversation to begin?
>
> I think Eric’s imagined a wonderful dialogue here.
>
> First, it’s in the context of chemistry, Peirce’s paradigm for
> how-to-do-philosophy, so this makes Peirce’s point perfectly.
>
> Second, Eric has situated it as a discussion between a lab
> tech and a student, not between a chemistry professor and a student. That
> makes the whole thing far more poignant—but makes the whole tension between
> the Peirce’s levels of discourse so in-your-face as well.
>
> Anyway,
>
> I’m really curious to see how Nick will address Eric’s
> adventitious example, and I don’t want this to get lost in the autumn
> leaves!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Nicholas Thompson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 30, 2022 10:47 AM
> *To:* Eric Charles <eric.phillip.charles at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* M. D. Bybee <mikebybee at earthlink.net>; Jon Zingale <
> jonzingale at gmail.com>; friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: Nick's monism kick
>
>
>
> I am at the moment living in a remote colony of rich peoples shacks, Hence
> no Internet.
>
>
>
> But I like the question so well I am forwarding it to the list. I will get
> back to you when I do not have to thumb my answer.
>
> N
>
> Sent from my Dumb Phone
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Eric Charles <eric.phillip.charles at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Nick,
>
> You have been asking for "an assignment", and I think I finally thought of
> a good one for you. (And I think it might spur some interesting discussion,
> which is why others are copied here.)
>
>
>
> Imagine that you are still teaching at Clark, and that you have been
> tentatively including your current monism more and more in some of the
> classes. When walking by the Chemistry labs, you recognize the voice of an
> enthusiastic student you had last quarter,, and you start to ease drop. The
> conversation is as follows:
>
> Lab tech: Be careful with that! If it mixes with the potassium solution,
> it can become explosive, we would have to evacuate the building.
> Student: What do you mean?
> Lab tech: If the potassium mixes with chlorides at the right ratio, then
> we are *probably* safe while it is in solution, but if it dries up, it is a
> hard-core explosive and it wouldn't take much to level the whole building.
> We would have to take that threat seriously, and evacuate the building
> until I made the solution safe.
> Student: Oh, a predictions about future experiences, I like those!
> Lab tech: What? I'm talking about a real danger, and I need you to be
> careful so it doesn't happen.
> Student: Yes, exactly, you believe that those experiences will follow if
> certain experiences happen now.
> Lab tech: Huh? No. I'm telling you how the physical atoms work. I mean...
> yes... the part about the explosion is something that would happen under
> certain circumstances in the future, but the chemical reaction and the
> damage it could cause are well known facts. Look, man, if you aren't here
> to learn how to be safe with the chemicals, then maybe you should just
> leave.
> Student: Wait, seriously? You aren't some kind of *materialist* are you?!?
> You know anything we could talk about are *just* experiences, right? It's
> experiences all the way down!
>
> Listening in, you can tell that the student is taking this line based on
> your influence, because it sounds like things they were kinda-sorta
> starting to grock in your class.
>
> How do you feel hearing that? Proud, worried, confused? Does it sound like
> the student was getting the message you intended, or has the intended
> message gone awry? Would you have said something similar to the Lab Tech
> under the same circumstances?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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