[FRIAM] Nick's Categories

[glen]

That's unfortunate. I'm trying to say that any 1 thing has nothing in common with any other thing. But we shouldn't be too hard on people who are tricked by abstraction into believing in nonsense like "communication" or "morphic resonance". But maybe I'm not as familiar with Sheldrake's other ideas beneath the paranormal stuff?

On 2/20/23 08:11, Prof David West wrote:
> I am hearing echoes of Rubert Sheldrake in your last sentence
> 
> davew
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023, at 8:46 AM, glen wrote:
>> Despite the ambiguity both Nick and DaveW rely on when they use the
>> word "dualism", the "psyche" in panpsychism need not be dualist.
>> Experience monism is a kind of panpsychism. When I asserted that there
>> is something that it is like to be dirt, I'm not implying there is a
>> difference between "psyche" and ... matter or whatever else there may
>> be. I'm asserting that whatever it is to be dirt is the *same* as
>> whatever it is to be human.
>>
>> By even using the phrases "mental stuff" or "mental life", *you* are
>> implicitly asserting there are 2 things: mental and non-mental. There
>> is no such difference, in my opinion. Now, while I am often a moron, I
>> don't deny that people *think* there's a difference. E.g. when you
>> finally get that snap of understanding while running, or taking a
>> shower or whatever, about some concept you've been working on, it
>> *feels* like pure mentation. The shift just feels cognitive, not
>> bodily. But I would maintain my stance that this is an abstraction, a
>> sloughing off of the bodily details. (The illusion is a byproduct of
>> focus and attention, which are mechanical implementations of
>> abstraction.) My stance is that, however cognitive such things feel,
>> they aren't. You wouldn't, *could not*, have arrived at that state
>> without your body, or if you had a different body.
>>
>> Yes, as long as your body is *similar* to others' bodies, you could
>> arrive at a *similar* understanding, but not the same.
>>
>> On 2/18/23 05:29, Eric Charles wrote:
>>> On 2/16/23 23:35, ⛧ glen wrote:
>>>> I don't know what you mean by "mental stuff", of course.
>>>
>>> Well... In this context, I mean whatever the "psyche" part of panpsychism entails.
>>>
>>> Given that I don't believe in disembodied minds, I'm with you 100% on everything you do being "body stuff". Which, presumably, leads to the empirical question of what types of bodies do "psyche", and where those types of bodies can be found.
>>>
>>> You say further that: 'No. Neither the dirt nor I do "mental stuff"'.
>>>
>>> Well, now we have something to actually talk about then! Dave West, unsurprisingly, stepped in strongly on the side of dirt having psyche in at least a rudimentary form, I presume he would assert that you (Glen) do mental stuff too. Dave also asserts that his belief in panpsychism /does/ affect how he lives in the world. Exactly to the extent that his way of living in the world is made different by the belief, panpsychism /_is_/ more than just something he says.
>>>
>>> Steve's discussion about what it would feel like to be the bit of dirt trampled beneath a particular foot is a bit of a tangent - potentially interesting in its own right. His discussion of when he, personally, starts to attribute identity - and potentially psyche - to clumps of inanimate stuff seems directly on topic, especially as he too has listed some ways his behaviors change when he becomes engaged in those habits.
>>>
>>>
>>
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