[FRIAM] I am not Unique

Sun Jun 25 21:57:51 EDT 2023

A little bit of internet research will do that to, as your post demonstrates.

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:59 PM, Tom Johnson <jtjohnson555 at gmail.com> wrote:

For me, there is at least a fifth reason to travel: to learn how other countries and cultures do things, usually better than we do in the U.S. For example:

  *   The use of cable cars in La Paz<https://www.google.com/search?q=map+of+cable+cars+in+la+paz+bolivia&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=APwXEdcK0Xuv-J5Q1jVDXKf4An3iKsJJqg%3A1687722111972&ei=f5iYZKb_OtKF0PEPlMyEiAc&ved=0ahUKEwjmutrnlt__AhXSAjQIHRQmAXEQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=map+of+cable+cars+in+la+paz+bolivia&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiI21hcCBvZiBjYWJsZSBjYXJzIGluIGxhIHBheiBib2xpdmlhMgUQABiiBDIFEAAYogQyBRAAGKIESKBRUMIfWKtGcAF4AZABAJgBwAegAfcpqgENMC4zLjEuNy4xLjAuMrgBA8gBAPgBAcICChAAGEcY1gQYsAPCAgcQIxiwAhgnwgIIEAAYBRgeGA3CAggQABiKBRiGA8ICCBAhGKABGMMEwgIKECEYoAEYwwQYCuIDBBgAIEGIBgGQBgg&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=nJiOBwg5sXSq0M&imgdii=CsPzMQi3Hbft8M>, Bolivia to reduce traffic in the geographically challenged city.
  *   The creative use of escalators in Medellin, Colombia<https://www.google.com/search?q=escalators+in+medin+colombia&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=APwXEdfb2CAIaV9klhgY32kqTtGp7pM1Dw%3A1687722159145&ei=r5iYZL6jCIGJ0PEP0cyBkAM&ved=0ahUKEwj-tpn-lt__AhWBBDQIHVFmADIQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=escalators+in+medin+colombia&gs_lp=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-QHCAiQQABiABBixAxhGGPkBGJcFGIwFGN0EGEYY9AMY9QMY9gPYAQLCAgYQABgWGB7CAggQABgWGB4YD8ICCBAAGIoFGIYDwgIFECEYoAHCAggQIRgWGB4YHcICBRAAGKIE4gMEGAAgQYgGAZAGCLoGBggBEAEYFLoGBggCEAEYEw&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#lpg=cid:CgIgAQ%3D%3D,ik:CAoSLEFGMVFpcE5tdXJGQ3Fwa0hPYWFOZGlqMGZQbTBQbWVYTGY5ZHQ2Z2M5Y0M0> to provide efficient transportation to work for the poor living on the steep slopes of the city's mountains. Not only have they benefitted the residents, but they have enhanced the culture by building libraries and community centers at transition points in the system.
  *   Again in Colombia, the major cities are divided into economic zones reflecting the income of residents.  I recall that the zones are 1 to 5, and the designation is even posted on street signs. The key, however, is that things like utility bills are pegged to the zones -- Zones #1 paying far less than each higher zone.
  *   Cities all over the world that attract tourists enhance their local economies -- and elevate the tourists' experience -- by closing off streets in the cities' historic districts to cars. (Hey, Santa Fe, are you listening?)
  *   How about international airports that (a) provide luggage cars for free; (b) have directional signs in multiple languages, (c) have multi-lingual hosts and hostesses to give directions (in Mexico City, many of these folks are in wheelchairs; in Bangkok, many are attractive young women in traditional dress)
  *   South Africa has something like 13 "official" languages. Go into its parliament visitors' gallery, put on headphones and dial up the simultaneous translation on any one of them. Ever tried to get even Spanish in the NM legislature?

I am sure many of you can suggest more.
Tom

On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 12:42 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
I can think of four different reasons to travel: To find new opportunities (for business), to learn about the different constraints that cultures impose by experiencing them, to enjoy pleasant physical locations, and for social conspicuous consumption reasons (for show).   Some of them are at odds, some can be aligned.

On Jun 25, 2023, at 9:24 AM, Edward Angel <angel at cs.unm.edu<mailto:angel at cs.unm.edu>> wrote:

 Personally, I found that article was terrible. Maybe the New Yorker is the appropriate place as it reminds of many New Yorkers’ attitude about the rest of the world.

I’ve spent over 50 years  in travel (not tourism) in around 80 countries, lived in four, visited over 20 professionally, trekked in four. I wouldn’t be the person I am without all the years of travel (even though the author claims I can’t make such a statement saying  "note that this phenomenon can’t be assessed first-personally"). Travel has been at least as important to me as all the years I’ve spent in academia.

The most fundamental problem with the article is that she does not distinguish between tourists, for which many of her rants may be true vs travelers who are very different from tourists. I can think of very few of my experiences that fit into the former category. It’s also hard to take anyone seriously who on one hand makes fun of the mass ot tourists who visit the Louvre so they could say they’ve seen the Mona Lisa for 1 minute who then goes to Paris and makes an effort not to see the Louvre.

I’ll admit I have no interest in understanding or writing about her work as a philosopher. I’d hope she’s have the humility not to pretend she is an expert on travel.

Ed

_______________________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home)   angel at cs.unm.edu<mailto:angel at cs.unm.edu>
505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

On Jun 24, 2023, at 6:10 PM, Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com<mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks, Russ.  I posted that because I've been bugging certain Friam attendees about why they travel so much.  I say there's no place that I'd rather be than Santa Fe so I tend to stay here.

It's not that I haven't traveled.  I remember being moved when I stood at the place where Thomas Becket was murdered in Canterbury Cathedral; there was nobody else there at that moment.  I was amused that the waiters in hotels in London would reply, "Thank you very much, sir" when I thanked them.  I was being a tourist then.

In the mid-nineties my wife and I traveled to Mexico several times.  I like Mexicans and they like speaking Spanish to Gringos.  Some of those trips were for the purpose of cultivating relationships to help with our wish to adopt a Mexican child.  I believe that in Mexico more than in some other places whom you know affects what you can do.  There were 90 adoptions by US couples in Mexico that year (1997) while there were several thousand in each of Russia and China.  I didn't feel like a tourist during those trips.

Our daughter Flor, her husband and kids are all in our house right now.  They live in Santa Fe near the Airport.

Frank
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 4:49 PM Russ Abbott <russ.abbott at gmail.com<mailto:russ.abbott at gmail.com>> wrote:
Frank, Thanks for the link.

Agnes Callard, the author of the article, sneers at tourists who visit Paris in order to visit the Louvre in order to see the Mona Lisa (and then spend 45 seconds looking at it)--because that's what one does in Paris. But presumably, Callard would find it perfectly acceptable to visit Paris in order to visit the Louvre in order to see the Mona Lisa, and then spend hours examining Da Vinci's brush strokes.

What's the difference between these two kinds of activities? Callard quotes Emerson, who is not critical of "a person who travels when his 'necessities' or 'duties' demand it. Nor does Emerson object to traversing great distances 'for the purpose of art, of study, and benevolence,'” as in the case of the student of DaVinci's painting technique. Here's a clue. Callard defines "tourism" as the kind of travel that aims at the interesting—and, if Emerson and company are right, misses."

In other words, one will not find "the interesting" by going in search of it. The same goes for happiness. One will not find happiness by going in search of it. These are both consequences of other activities and make no sense as stand-alone goals.

-- Russ Abbott
Professor Emeritus, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles

On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 2:13 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com<mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> wrote:
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-weekend-essay/the-case-against-travel

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
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