[FRIAM] Biospheres

[Jochen Fromm]

Interesting points. Life in Antartica and on the ISS is only possible because of continuous supplies from the outside. Biosphere 2 showed all the problems that arise for example on Moon or Mars if there are no such supplies: lack of oxygen, lack of food and lack of clean waterhttps://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/jul/13/spaceship-earth-arizona-biosphere-2-lockdownRobots on the other hand have no problems surviving on Mars: Curiosity, Spirit, Perseverance, ... have proven they can survive in harsh and hostile conditions. Maybe we are like fish 400 million years ago wondering if life outside the ocean is possible. The answer would have been yes, but not for fish.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_rover-J.
-------- Original message --------From: Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> Date: 3/1/24  7:26 PM  (GMT+01:00) To: friam at redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Biospheres
    Thanks for this prompt.  I recently tripped over:
         https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/martians-wanted-nasa-opens-call-for-simulated-yearlong-mars-mission/
    and was reminded of my maunderings when Musk first stated his
      aspirations for Mars colonization acutely or eloquently enough to
      convince me he was serious, not just attention-seeking.
    
      Antartica has been continuously "colonized" for about 100
        years, but by various international scientific researchers at
        extremely well funded (per capita) habitats.   The conditions
        there (for the most part) are *much* more welcome to human life
        and definitely easier to supply.   
      
      Seafloor habitats (these were a rage to consider in the 50s
        and 60s, but have lost popularity) seem at least as welcoming as
        Antartica and (for the most part) nicely buffered from wild
        climactic and weather shifts?   Also easier to resupply from
        "topside"?    I don't know how deep you have to go to get the
        "buffering" I mentioned, but certainly not Titanic explorer
        implosion depths.   Kurzweil recently claimed a synthetic
        "hemoglobin" replacement/supplement (suggested dosage == 50/50
        mix with natural) which would gift the average human something
        like 6 hours without breathing?   Add oxy/rebreather tech and
        you have homo aquatic methinks?    Don't know about pressure... 
        scuba wonks anyone?
      Asteroid belting seems to make much more sense for
        gravitational and resource acquisition reasons?   Lots of basic
        needs available "somewhere" in the same gravity well
        (Ice/Oxygen-compounds/metals?).  If you gotta live indoors most
        of the time, why not orbiting in a resource rich environment
        where you never have to dig too deep for molecular resource
        stock and all travel is frictionless and low-gravity-gradient?  
        Atmosphere is good for cosmic shielding but not as good as
        planetary magnetic field?
      Biosphere/II were part of a big movement as I came of age and
        lived within 100-200 miles of the project at the time... It
        looked like a folly and rich-person's conceit at the time...
        little did I know what would follow!
      Various ideas around Arcologies, starting with the (also
        Arizona Desert) Arcosanti (Paolo Soleri) and made totally over
        the top (the Saudis' Line City of Noem) have intrigued me, and
        since any moon/mars/europa colony we try to build will be much
        more resource-demanding and personally and external-supply
        restricted, I feel like at-worst we should be exploring those
        concepts while Musk tries to fling a million people to Mars
        (many of them is direct descendents?  Maybe a a few thousand
        vials of his frozen sperm or with the Alabama nonsense, a few
        thousand IVF embryos of his parentage (and gawdess knows whose
        ova?) for genetic diversity?     
      
    
    It all (Mars/Moon/Asteroid Belt colonization) strikes me as being
      fueled by too much the GOFF (good old fashioned futurism) too many
      of us boomers and some GenX were raised on.   
    
    If Musk thinks the "woke mind virus" is the earth's (or
      humanity's) biggest threat, I don't know how he thinks colonizing
      Mars will help.   Some strange resonance with the aspirations of
      the break-away European Colonies of the Age of Exploration?  How
      much of the Americas was colonized with this desire to leave the
      "old country" baggage behind, only to repeat the same mistakes or
      trip over the Utopia/Dystopia duality?   And then we have to
      (almost exclusively failed, and usually catastrophically) cults
      and communes of the current era.
    
    I avoided reading Kim Stanley Robinson's Red/Green/Blue Mars
      series for the longest time, not being a big fan of Space Opera,
      but when he hooked me on his climate disaster novels (Washington
      DC, California settings, then his magnum opus a few years ago
      Ministry for the Future) I went ahead and let him update me on the
      Barsoomian conceits I was raised on as a pre-teen.    His
      Terraforming Mars (red/green/blue Mars) stuff was pretty good with
      lots of tech exploration of just how do you survive on
      mars-as-it-is then get enough water to the surface to start
      greening up some parts, then yet enough more water to start having
      surface water.   I forget the tech details now, but suffice it to
      say I was mildly convinced he had researched the basic physics and
      ideated honestly on the engineering challenges.   Of course the
      social/economic/political implications interested me more.  He
      played around in that space well.
    I'm not convinced we have any business colonizing Mars (or any
      Solar planetary body really) soon.   Seems like we have an
      excellent Goldilocks Zone planet whose nurturance (or at least our
      multi-billion year evolution/adaption/co-evolution to/with it) is
      a fine fit if we could just "cool our jets" (literally and
      figuratively) enough to keep the keep the oscillations we are
      driving into it's medium term (centuries?) stability so
      thoughtlessly.  Drill Baby Drill!
    
    I just started watching the series "the Expanse" which as best I
      can tell is constrained to the general range I've described of
      Earth/Mars/Belt...   it seems pretty long on tech and special
      effects and flashy weapons and space-collisions and bad
      blood/intentions, and really weak on any deference to the
      realities of orbital mechanics and semi-absurdity of the implied
      economics (measured in delta-V?) but I am doing this to be
      conversant with a good friend.   What we both agreed on was that
      by the time our tech/energetics support that kind of free-ranging
      through the middle of the solar system, genetic engineering and
      cybernetic tech, you would at least expect the humans going about
      all this spacefaring to be *tiny*, maybe giant brains with minimal
      bodies and probably reverting to grasping feet/toes and maybe
      throw (back) in an articulating tail for balance in 0G and an
      extra gripper/poker?    A 30lb human with a 2-3lb brain is a lot
      more  obvious than the 150-300 lb'rs shown on the show.   The
      metabolic needs just don't make sense?   replace a bunch of the
      muscle/bone/pumps/fluids of a human body with cyber versions and
      the "engineering" support/maintenance/repair becomes more suitable
      to the environment.   Maybe the brain/mind/spirit upload business
      will come about eventually, then the burden of the human-on-board
      become even more well aligned with other systems?   Or maybe we go
      the other way and engineer our bodies to become the
      space-ships...  let organic chemistries and biomechanics and
      biomaterials do all the work of radiation shielding, vacuum
      resisting, thermal management, etc.   might be a bit much to do
      ion-thrusters/chemical-rockets/nuclear-rockets with
      bio-materials?   Light Sails! Nicholas van Rjin/ Falkayne anyone? 
      James Blish?   Ian Banks?
    
    Mumble,
     -S
    
    On 3/1/24 10:04 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
    
    
      
      Corentin de Chatelperron and Caroline Pultz tried
        to live for 120 days in the Mexican desert self sufficiently,
        growing their own food. Using their own desalination machines
        they generated fresh water for the plants and themselves 
https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/110239-000-A/the-biosphere-experiment/
        
        Biosphere 2 near Tuscon was a similar, even more extreme
        experiment to create a self-sustaining ecosystem. The experiment
        was considered a failure and the whole center belongs now to the
        University of Arizona.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2
        
        Both experiments showed how difficult it is to support human
        life in a closed, self-sustaining environment. Do you think
        self-sustained life on Moon or Mars is possible? Or as the book
        "A City on Mars" asks "Can we settle space, should we settle
        space, and have we really thought this through?"
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/dec/14/a-city-on-mars-by-kelly-and-zach-weinersmith-review-one-way-ticket-to-muskow-anyone
      
      
      
      -J.
      
      
      
      
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