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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If I were programming in
<a href="http://cidarlab.org/cello/">Cello</a>, then actual constraints of biology would influence me. If I were programming an agent simulation for a system biology modeling project, what I understood about biology would go into that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">But not all kinds of programming would be influenced by biology. Programming language features for typing or genericity are precise mathematical instruments that are best
to understand on their own, without any vague or grandiose metaphors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Also, I would discriminate between programming and computation. There are many kinds of computation that would be interesting to consider separate from programming. (Although
`programming’ to me already has a broader meaning than it does for some.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Marcus<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From: </span></b><span style="color:black">Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of Nick Thompson <nickthompson@earthlink.net><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 8:32 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam@redfish.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] What is an object?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Well, it goes without saying, doesn’t it, that it’s your current IDEAS of biology that influence your programming, not biology itself, right? And your biologiized
ideas of programming then influence your notion of the cell. We never really know clouds themselves. So to speak.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">N</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Nicholas S. Thompson</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Clark University</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"><span style="color:#0563C1">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Friam [mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marcus Daniels<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 19, 2018 10:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] What is an object?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">"</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Like with the Great Man Theory, the actual causes of any phenomena in a complex and complicated system like Xerox
Parc (embedded in culture, society, psychology, physiology, biology, chemistry, etc.) are multifarious and occult."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Assuming there even was a Great Idea to go with a Great Man. For starters..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="https://medium.com/@cscalfani/goodbye-object-oriented-programming-a59cda4c0e53">https://medium.com/@cscalfani/goodbye-object-oriented-programming-a59cda4c0e53</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.stlport.org/resources/StepanovUSA.html">http://www.stlport.org/resources/StepanovUSA.html</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://wiki.c2.com/?ArgumentsAgainstOop" title="Ctrl+Click or tap to follow the link">http://wiki.c2.com/?ArgumentsAgainstOop<br>
</a><a href="https://content.pivotal.io/blog/all-evidence-points-to-oop-being-bullshit">https://content.pivotal.io/blog/all-evidence-points-to-oop-being-bullshit</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://wiki.c2.com/?ArgumentsAgainstOop"><br>
</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
on behalf of glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">gepropella@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 19, 2018 7:22:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] What is an object?</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Of course it's reasonable for you to dissent! But over and above the most important example Marcus raises of biology (because *everything* is biology 8^), even your historical account is a litany of WHAT,
not WHY. <br>
<br>
Sure it may seem like you're examining the why of these artifacts. But you're not. Why questions are always metaphysical. What you're actually doing in your list and analysis of past events is inferring the WHY from the WHAT. And your inferences, no matter
how good you are at inferring, will always just be your best guess at WHY. <br>
<br>
Like with the Great Man Theory, the actual causes of any phenomena in a complex and complicated system like Xerox Parc (embedded in culture, society, psychology, physiology, biology, chemistry, etc.) are multifarious and occult. No oversimplified *narrative*
like yours will fully circumscribe those causes. To think otherwise is to fool oneself into false belief ... a kind of faith-based world view.<br>
<br>
<br>
On July 19, 2018 3:01:57 AM PDT, Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>"The IDEA of Smalltalk derived from the IDEA of Simula; the philosophy<br>
>and ideas of Englebart, Bush, Sutherland; the metaphor of cellular<br>
>biology, and undoubtedly more. Alan Kay coalesced those influences and<br>
>led the team that implemented the team that actually created the<br>
>language at Xerox PARC."<br>
><br>
>For example, I don't see analogs of cytokines, hormones, or<br>
>neurotransmitters in Smalltalk or any computing systems today. The<br>
>closest that comes to mind are functional reactive programming systems,<br>
>e.g. game platforms tied to a physics engine. <br>
>The idea that top-down intent matters is preposterous if the motivation<br>
>is biology, a massively-parallel bottom-up phenomena that involves<br>
>physical stuff.<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
glen<br>
<br>
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