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<p>It is to this point that I prefer to think in terms of
"neurodiverse" rather than "mentally ill". Your definitions here
respond more to my idea of "sociopathy". I don't think of
sociopaths as being mentally ill, just not good members of the
society they find themselves in. Most *L*ibertarians I know seem
to be on the verge of sociopathy as a matter of honor. <br>
</p>
<p>There has been a move afoot to recognize the selection value of
neurodiversity in a group and to de-stigmatize or de-pathologize
what was previously considered dis-ease or dys-function.</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/books/review/neurotribes-by-steve-silberman.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/books/review/neurotribes-by-steve-silberman.html</a><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/2/19 12:33 PM, Marcus Daniels
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D11D6E8D-A518-4DE7-A121-8C33964D2410@snoutfarm.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Nick writes:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">“A mentally ill
individual is one whose behavior is so annoying that other
individuals are willing to cooperate to put him away?”
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sure, in that case the “mentally ill
individual” may have failed to connect their actions with the
consequences. Or maybe they wanted lodging in a psychiatric
facility on the family dime -- probably a bad call if your
name was Rosemary Kennedy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marcus<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> on behalf of Nick
Thompson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net"><nickthompson@earthlink.net></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 12:15 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group' <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] Statistical poser (aka fact
checking is hard)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Marcus, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Forgive me if I
am entering this party late, but what exactly means “mental
illness”
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><i>I would
expect that mental illness is massively underdiagnosed in
this country, and especially in the blue collar mid-west
where it is considered a taboo topic and people have not
had adequate health insurance to use to diagnose it. </i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">So, is a young
person who hears voices, but who integrates those voices
into a well-organized and effective life mentally ill? Is
the homeless person who prefers to sleep on a subway grate
than go into a shelter mentally ill? I had a colleague once
who famously checked himself into a mental hospital making a
vague claim to hearing voices and then, once on the ward,
behaved absolutely as he would have otherwise. His only
aberrant behavior was that he constantly took notes.
Explaining that he was doing a study of the ward. When,
after a few weeks, he got bored of it and tried to check
himself out, he could not get out! He had to use his
“fail-safe” (the chairman of his department, if I remember)
to extract himself. Was he mentally ill? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Is trump
mentally Ill? WAS he mentally ill before he became
president? Or was he promoted to his level of mental
illness. (<a
href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Peter-Principle-Things-Always-Wrong/dp/0285631764"
moz-do-not-send="true">CF, Peter Principle.)</a> (In a
political hierarchy a politician will rise to his level of
insanity.) (cf,
<i><a
href="https://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=All%20the%20kings%20men&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20"
moz-do-not-send="true">All the Kings Men</a></i>, a
fabulous novel, by the way). Not clear to me how a
libertarian of any stripe can allow the concept of mental
illness into a conversation. A mentally ill individual is
one whose behavior is so annoying that other individuals are
willing to cooperate to put him away?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Nick </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Nicholas S.
Thompson</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Emeritus
Professor of Psychology and Biology</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Clark
University</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a
href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Marcus Daniels<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 02, 2019 11:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Statistical poser (aka fact
checking is hard)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Robert writes:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“Estimates vary by source, but fraction of
opioid deaths that are suicide is around 20-30%”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What I’d really like to know is how the
fraction of opioid deaths occur with individuals that have no
historical sign of mental illness at all, and would be
described by their friends and colleagues as effective and
engaged prior to their initial prescription. I would expect
that mental illness is massively underdiagnosed in this
country, and especially in the blue collar mid-west where it
is considered a taboo topic and people have not had adequate
health insurance to use to diagnose it. I strongly suspect
a structural cause of all this is the idea that free will
exists, combined with the inevitable evolution of the economy
toward more automation. Millions of people, maybe hundreds
of millions of people, have what amounts to a mistaken view of
the world. Similar arguments apply to the ongoing outbursts
of gun homicide (instead of suicide).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marcus<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
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