<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 4 2 4 2 2 3;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Old English Text MT";
panose-1:3 4 9 2 4 5 8 3 8 6;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>Dave, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Old English Text MT"'>Thou deniest me in my moment of need!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Old English Text MT"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Old English Text MT"'>Thou castest me to the wolves (eg Marcus).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Old English Text MT"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Old English Text MT"'>Why hast thou forsaken me? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Nick <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Nicholas S. Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West<br>Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2019 10:49 AM<br>To: friam@redfish.com<br>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Abduction</p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Sorry Nick,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I am as hardcore Apollonian as is possible.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>And if you organize your life around pleasure, even if moderate and consistent, it is you that are the Dionysian.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>davew<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>On Wed, Jan 2, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Dave,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> I realize that you (and perhaps others of our colleagues here) are <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Dionysians, whereas I, always, have been a stalwart Apollonian. The <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> difference, for me, is the risk one is willing to take for a peak <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> experience of some sort. Some people organize their lives around <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> their vacations and holidays. I hate holidays and vacations and <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> organize my life around a steady diet of moderate pleasure. If you see what I mean.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> For instance, I have never dreamed about what mushrooms might do for me. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Is that a fair statement of a difference between us? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Nick<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Nicholas S. Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> From: Friam [<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com</span></a>] On Behalf Of Prof David <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> West<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2019 7:05 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>friam@redfish.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Abduction<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> MDMA risks = dehydration, in part because it is usually taken in the <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> context of frenetic physical activity like at a rave. Disinhibition <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> can pose a secondary risk because partner selection is less <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> discerning. Like too many drugs, long term effects / gender different <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> effects / age different effects, are unknown because unstudied.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> davew<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019, at 7:46 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > The premise of the series is that a drug + counseling is used to <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > mitigate PTSD symptoms, but in fact it ends-up deleting recent memories<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > and was intended to make soldiers able to continue service. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > One might argue that accumulation of emotional trauma is part of one's <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > personality, and relieving it destroys part of a person. One might <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > also argue that to have just one personality, developing on a <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > contiguous timeline, is a sort of arbitrary confinement -- like <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > living in a freezer that just keeps getting colder.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > I don't know what the actual risks are of MDMA. Alcohol's side effects, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > in terms of impairment of judgement, are already pretty dangerous. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > Marcus<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > On 1/1/19, 7:23 PM, "Friam on behalf of glen" <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com%20on%20behalf%20of%20gepropella@gmail.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>friam-bounces@redfish.com on behalf of gepropella@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > I don't understand what you mean? Are you asking why <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > psychedelics are not prescribable? Or saying that their therapeutic <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > effect is negligible?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > FWIW, I haven't seen Homecoming.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > On January 1, 2019 11:28:28 AM PST, Marcus Daniels <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>marcus@snoutfarm.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > >Watching Homecoming I found myself thinking, "Yes, so what's <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > the big<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > >deal?"<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > >On 12/31/18, 1:40 PM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ <span style='font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif'>☣</span>"<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > ><<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com%20on%20behalf%20of%20gepropella@gmail.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>friam-bounces@redfish.com on behalf of gepropella@gmail.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > > We're getting closer EVERY DAY!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > > <a href="https://psi-2020.org/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://psi-2020.org/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > > Oh, and if anyone needs a charity to toss some 2018 money at:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > > <a href="https://maps.org/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://maps.org/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > -- <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > glen<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > ============================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > ============================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> > FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> ============================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> at St. John's College to unsubscribe <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> ============================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> at St. John's College to unsubscribe <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>============================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>