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<div>Aww Nick,<br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;">Surely you jest: "<span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">Something about the category is real."</span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">Real? </span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">Real, as in dualist metaphysics?</span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">Or merely real in the sense that there is a group of humans willing to behave in a manner consistent with a pretend belief that a labeled category is real?</span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">About a decade back there were ten states (Oregon's courts recently struck down this kind of law, so I think Texas is the last remaining state where this is true) that presenting yourself a "software engineer" was a minor felony. This despite the fact that universities in those states issued hundreds if not thousands of diplomas reading software engineering. The activities typically associated with 'software engineering', primary among them, programming, were being practiced for nearly 20 years before the phrase"software engineering" was first uttered. [[LEO I, first business computer, in 1951 - software engineering first coined in 1968.]]</span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">Transgender as a term, let alone a category, is, in the culture most of the FRIAM list exist within, is less than fifty-years old. [The Sioux had a term,"berdache," for men that dressed and behaved as women while providing sexual services to men observing the 7-year post-partum sex with spouse taboo. And there are hundreds of terms in other cultures not afflicted with the need to disambiguate absolutely everything.]</span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">Can you offer an example of a category where membership criteria is not completely arbitrary and does not change over time? A category that is not not constantly 're-defined' in light of new information? (I am thinking here of biological categories like Linneaus's taxonomy of categories replaced with DNA-based categories, being questioned and on the verge of re-definition as we recognize how "muddled" DNA can be.)</span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">Can a "category" ever be more than a "metaphor?"</span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">When it comes to human beings; can categorization ever rise above being an expression of differentiation between thee and me? It seems to me that categorization is, mostly, little more than a disguised expression of xenophobia.</span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">davew</span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)"></span></span></span></span></span><br></div>
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<div>On Wed, Jan 9, 2019, at 8:50 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">Nick writes:</span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">< </span></span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">Ok, Marcus, I am standing my ground as a realist here: ():-[)</span></span></span><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> ></span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">There you go trying to claim semantics for terms in a public dictionary again. (That’s an example of taking ground, like in my Go example.) Doing so constrains what can
even be <b>said</b>. It puts the skeptic in the position of having to deconstruct every single term, and thus be a called terms like <a style="text-decoration: underline; color: blue;" href="https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kellyanne-conway-embarrasses-cnns-jim-acosta-during-heated-exchange"> smartass</a> when they force the terms to be used in other contexts where the definition doesn’t work. A culture itself is laden with thousands of de-facto definitions that steer meaning back to conventional (e.g. racist and sexist) expectations. To even
to begin to question these expectations requires having some power base, or safe space, to work from. </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">In this case, you assert that some discussants are software engineers and that distinguishes them from your category. A discussant of that (accused / implied) type says he
is not a member of that set and that it is not even a credible set. Another discussant says the activity of such a group is a skill and if someone lacks it, they could just as well gain it while having other co-equal skills too. So there is already reason
to doubt the categorization you are suggesting. </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">< <span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">You cannot be against categories because you cannot TALK without categories. “person” and “dog” are categories. Yes, the thought they call up in me is inevitably wrong in some respect. I see you with Korgies, but they are actually
Irish Wolf Hounds. You cannot bake a sentence without breaking some categories, yet the categories endure. Something about the category is real. </span>></span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">Are you claiming that the concept of membership in particular biological species is a subjective concept? That I am hijacking the meaning of a person or a dog? Really?</span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">< <span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)">So, if you are not against categorization, per se, and since all categories do violence of one sort or another, you must be against categories that do more violence than they do good. So, when I called you a gazelle, what violence
did I do? Would I have done better to call you a Wildebeest? Would I be more or less disappointed in my expectations had I called you a Springbok? </span>><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 51, 0)"></span></span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">For example, it would be better to call the young person in this story a girl. That requires having the cognitive flexibility to recognize that some terms are dynamic or
at least a matter of debate.</span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/opinion/trans-teen-transition.html</span></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"> </span></span><br></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Times New Roman", serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt">Marcus</span></span></span></span><br></p></div>
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