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<p>Nick -</p>
<p>Attempting to respond to the "algorithmic" subtopic:</p>
<p>I have felt from an early age (before I knew the term algorithm)
that the socio-political-religious-economic systems we all operate
within are algorithmic. I am prone to define "fascism" as any
such systems which go over some magical threshold from trying to
follow the part of their charter which is to serve some end
outside of the system to caring primarily (or exclusively) about
self-perpetuation (coherence, robustness and growth). <br>
</p>
<p>With that in mind, the US highway/transportation system from the
Interstate Highway system down to semi-maintained former logging
roads, the vehicles traveling over them, the rules governing them,
and the people operating those vehicles and pursuing other
ends/interests through the engagement of the system represent a
large, complex "computation" of sorts. As self-driving vehicles
are displaced by variations on self-riving vehicles, the
similarity will approach identity. <br>
</p>
<p>I agree with Dave's general distinction between "algorithm" and
"algorithmic context", though it would seem that nominally
"algorithmic context" is maintained (if not established as well)
by another level of "algorithms" (e.g. Maritime/Mechanical/Civil
Engineering principles, etc.)</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/15/19 10:13 AM, Prof David West
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1547572396.1933156.1635318856.0EF84DE3@webmail.messagingengine.com">
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<div style="font-family:Arial;">Nick wrote:<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> "Computers are the
conscripted sailors of our generation." </span></span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt">I would say that
"computer users are the conscripted sailors.</span></span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt">Computers, computing,
software: all are algorithmic, creating an "algorithmic
context" (Navy) within which human users (Sailors) are
constrained to act.</span></span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Like human sailors in the Navy,
human users acting in this algorithmic context can only go wrong
if they attempt to utilize their "native intelligence." <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Moreover, this state of affairs is
pretty much intentional (albeit sometimes below the threshold of
awareness). In the algorithmic world, humans are nothing except
sources of error. Even those developing the software are assumed
to be (the vast majority anyway) incompetent and must be
constrained by rigid and detailed methodology.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">SkyNet has won and we are but its
minions.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, at 9:53 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt">, I imagine, are old
enough to remember this:</span></span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><b><i><span
class="size" style="font-size:10pt">“The Navy is a
master plan designed by geniuses for execution by
idiots. If you are not an idiot, but find yourself
in the Navy, you can only operate well by
pretending to be one. All the shortcuts and
economies and common-sense changes that your
native intelligence suggests to you are mistakes.
Learn to quash them. Constantly ask yourself, "How
would I do this if I were a fool?" Throttle down
your mind to a crawl. Then you will never go
wrong.” </span></i></b><br>
― <span>Herman Wouk, </span><a style="text-decoration:
underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);"
href="https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1059565"
moz-do-not-send="true">The Caine Mutiny</a></span></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt">It seems right that
the computer was invented by a democratic society after
the largest successful naval campaign in the history of
the universe. The navy was a giant algorithm.
Computers are the conscripted sailors of our
generation.</span></span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt">Nick</span></span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt">Nicholas S. Thompson</span></span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt">Emeritus Professor
of Psychology and Biology</span></span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt">Clark University</span></span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt"><a
style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99,
193);"
href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</a></span></span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="font"
style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif"><span
class="size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
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