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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>David, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Is there such a thing as a fuzzy algorithm? I would think that was a contradiction in terms. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>N<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Nicholas S. Thompson<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Clark University<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Friam [mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof David West<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 15, 2019 10:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>"any military must operate on algorithms" </span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>(Nick)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Not really true. and there is a huge spectrum of "algorithm-ness" as a function of military branch, activity, rank, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>A navy vessel is a machine and operates on algorithms. Humans within that machine must be constrained to be as machine-like and algorithm governed as possible else the underlying machine falters. Same this is true of the quasi-military astronauts in the space station.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>In the army, soldiers are trained in principles until they become second nature and their subsequent behavior is, if successful, decidedly non-algorithmic (instead it is complex / emergent). "Plans are always the first casualty of war." Plans = algorithms. Read General McChrystal's book, <i>Team of Teams</i>, to get what I am saying.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>A fighter pilot 'practices algorithmically' but does not fight that way. Commercial pilots fly algorithmically — is what makes the job so damn boring — but Schulenberger (tenth anniversary today) did not land in the Hudson according to some algorithm.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>BTW, software developers are supposed to ply their trade rationally (i.e. algorithmically) but David Parnas once wrote an excellent paper, "The Rational Design Process: how and why to fake it," that put the lie to the ideal.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>davew<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, at 11:48 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Thanks for answering, Frank.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>As the old song goes, “Then you’re much older than I-yai!”</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Do you also remember when “They waltzed to a Souza Band”</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>My wasn’t that music grand! </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Oh, it was more than the pomp Wouk bristled at. It was the removal of discretion, as well. The American military is perhaps better than most in that regard, but any military has to operate on algorithms, and nobody likes to be a node in an algorithm. So, I guess my thesis was that in the second world war we got a double and conflicting lesson: how effective an algorithmic system can be AND how demeaning it can be to be part of one. Two solutions present themselves: 1. Hire mercenaries and 2. Automate. Of course we have done both. </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>An officer of your dad’s rank, of course, was an exception and even within that giant system he made big decisions daily, decisions that affected the lives of thousands of people. There is a scene in that same book where an officer is required to make one of those decisions between surely killing 50 strangers or threatening the life of 150 you know that utilitarians are fond of posing. It’s a harrowing scene. </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I wonder what the relation is between a distaste for government and service as an enlisted soldier. That’s not a rhetorical question. I do wonder. I am thinking there is a high correlation between states with high military participation and states with anti-government politics. When a conservative thinks of “government” is he more likely to think of the military? </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Nick</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Nicholas S. Thompson</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Clark University</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"><span class=colour><span style='color:#0563C1'>http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></span></a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b></span><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Friam [<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Wimberly</span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br><span class=size><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 14, 2019 10:01 PM</span><br><span class=size><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>></span><br><span class=size><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>I read the book but I don't remember that paragraph. As you know, dad was a Naval Officer who achieved respectable rank. I was fascinated by it but he felt that all the pomp and ceremony was BS. If computers are today's sailors, something is lost and something gained.</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span class=size>Frank</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>-----------------------------------</span><br><span class=size>Frank Wimberly</span><br><br><span class=size>My memoir:</span><br><span class=size><a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a></span><br><br><span class=size>My scientific publications:</span><br><span class=size><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a></span><br><br><span class=size>Phone (505) 670-9918</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 9:53 PM Nick Thompson <<a href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net">nickthompson@earthlink.net</a> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-top-color:currentcolor;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1'><div><div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>, I imagine, are old enough to remember this:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>“The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by idiots. If you are not an idiot, but find yourself in the Navy, you can only operate well by pretending to be one. All the shortcuts and economies and common-sense changes that your native intelligence suggests to you are mistakes. Learn to quash them. Constantly ask yourself, "How would I do this if I were a fool?" Throttle down your mind to a crawl. Then you will never go wrong.” </span></i></b></span><br><span class=size>― Herman Wouk, <a href="https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1059565">The Caine Mutiny</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>It seems right that the computer was invented by a democratic society after the largest successful naval campaign in the history of the universe. The navy was a giant algorithm. Computers are the conscripted sailors of our generation.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>Nicholas S. Thompson</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>Clark University</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span class=size>============================================================</span><br><span class=size>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br><span class=size>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College</span><br><span class=size>to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a></span><br><span class=size>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a></span><br><span class=size>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>============================================================<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>