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Frank/Nick -
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfrCLD-gmUD3qXdtVehsUfajp=vUtNGjuMTZJRzmm4TTXQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">It's something you can move around on in a
continuous way?<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>elaborating slightly at the risk of obscuring or confounding:<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p>"a closed (hyper)surface you can move around on in a continuous
way"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't know if <i>closed</i> and <i>continuous</i> are
redundant in this case, but for Nick's edification, the point to
"closed" is that as one "wanders about" on the surface, one
needn't worry about "falling through a hole". <br>
</p>
<p>(didn't I just promise to be more careful with my orthography?
Why DO I feel the need to quote these phrases? In the first two
cases, I'm quoting Franks words, but what is the nature of my
added phrase "falling through a hole"? It is not <i>Falling
Through a Hole</i>, I don't think? Perhaps the <i>Target Domain</i>
then is from the metaphor of a physical surface a human might
actually wander about upon and then fall through a hole if he
missteps?)<br>
</p>
<p> Examples of 2D manifolds embedded in 3D spaces include spheres,
donuts, and double rubber-ring-toys your dogs tug at with one
another. A Klein bottle is also a 2D manifold, but it must be
embedded in R4 (3D depictions include self-intersecting surfaces
which is misleading if illustrative).</p>
<p>The point (of course) of adding "hyper" is to remind Nick that a
manifold needn't be restricted to 2 or even 3 dimensions, even
though visualizing those is fruitless. For more intuition on the
topic, I refer Nick to E.A. Abbot's _Flatland, a Romance of Many
Dimensions_ (1884). A. Square (the protagonist) struggles with
similar questions, but only in 2D, giving us some sympathy (and
sense of mostly undeserved superiority?)<br>
</p>
<p><ugly description of internal combustion engine (imperfect and
misleading) manifolds deleted></p>
<p>-Steve<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfrCLD-gmUD3qXdtVehsUfajp=vUtNGjuMTZJRzmm4TTXQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, 8:52 PM
Nick Thompson <<a href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">nickthompson@earthlink.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_6540132875114457051WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I
am sure it helps a lot of people; just not me. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I
need a metaphor. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Nick
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Nicholas
S. Thompson</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Emeritus
Professor of Psychology and Biology</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Clark
University</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563c1">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Friam [mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Wimberly<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 08, 2019 8:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert?
(was, Re: are we how we behave?)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Succinctly,
and I may leave something out, a manifold is a
topological space for which there is a homeomorphism
between every open set and an open set in Rn for some
n. More concretely, lines and surfaces are manifolds
but things get complicated in higher dimensions. That
probably doesn't help.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a
href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, 8:27 PM Nick
Thompson <<a
href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">nickthompson@earthlink.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Lee, <br>
<br>
Just to bend the thread a bit further, is "excess
meaning" a term of art for<br>
you? It seems very close to the term "surplus
meaning" which was used in a<br>
famous article assigned to all Psychology graduate
students in the sixties<br>
on the distinction between hypothetical constructs
and intervening<br>
variables. Wondering if your term has the same
meaning and if it has a<br>
life somewhere.<br>
<br>
As to the convex hull I went from there to the
overturned boat in NCIS and<br>
thence to "manifold" which, when the term is
deployed by mathematicians I<br>
always think of a shroud, like a blanket dropped
over some lumpy thing to<br>
contain it, roughly. Which, now that I mention it,
makes me want to explain<br>
wtf you mathematicians mean when you use the word
manifold. <br>
<br>
If that's not a thoroughly bent thread I don't know
what is. <br>
<br>
Nick <br>
<br>
Nicholas S. Thompson<br>
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology<br>
Clark University<br>
<a
href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Friam [mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>]
On Behalf Of<br>
<a href="mailto:lrudolph@meganet.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">lrudolph@meganet.net</a><br>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2019 7:04 PM<br>
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
Subject: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are
we how we behave?)<br>
<br>
Steve writes in relevant part:<br>
<br>
> My position is that I favor each and every one
of us taking whatever <br>
> responsibility for understanding our own
"convex hull" of <br>
> capability/knowledge/intuition as we are
capable of and "managing" it <br>
> to the best of our ability.<br>
<br>
The quotation marks around the phrase 'convex hull'
and the word 'managing'<br>
presumably signal that they are being used
non-literally, and (I guess)<br>
metaphorically. I would particularly like Steve, if
he is willing, to delve<br>
into the intended metaphor in the first case. On
the one hand, lots of my<br>
work uses more or less geometry; on the other, in
lots of my other work I<br>
use metaphor; and I even think and write about
metaphor. So it's likely<br>
that I'm taking the metaphor more seriously than
intended.<br>
<br>
With that disclaimer: in the technical contexts I'm
familiar with, to pass<br>
from something X to the convex hull of X has the
effect of (1) 'filling in<br>
holes in X', in a well-defined manner that is (2) as
economical as possible<br>
and (3) (therefore) unique. Which (if any) of those
properties are<br>
reflected, and how, in the case that X is our<br>
"capability/knowledge/intuition"? ... I could
ramble on a lot more but will<br>
start with that.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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