<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Oh do it, Steve.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Forward me that ugly description of the manifold of an internal combustion engine.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Pleeeeeese! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Nick <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>PS –One of the things I notice that I don’t share with you guys is a history of reading Science Fiction. I read <i>Etoin Shurdlu</i> when I was about 15, <i>Metamorphosis</i> (Kofka) when I was about 17, and Shirley Jackson’s <i>The Lottery</i> when I was in my 20’s and that’s about it. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Nicholas S. Thompson<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Clark University<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> Friam [mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steven A Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 08, 2019 10:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we behave?)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Frank/Nick - <o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>It's something you can move around on in a continuous way?<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p>elaborating slightly at the risk of obscuring or confounding:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p>"a closed (hyper)surface you can move around on in a continuous way"<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p>I don't know if <i>closed</i> and <i>continuous</i> are redundant in this case, but for Nick's edification, the point to "closed" is that as one "wanders about" on the surface, one needn't worry about "falling through a hole". <o:p></o:p></p><p>(didn't I just promise to be more careful with my orthography? Why DO I feel the need to quote these phrases? In the first two cases, I'm quoting Franks words, but what is the nature of my added phrase "falling through a hole"? It is not <i>Falling Through a Hole</i>, I don't think? Perhaps the <i>Target Domain</i> then is from the metaphor of a physical surface a human might actually wander about upon and then fall through a hole if he missteps?)<o:p></o:p></p><p> Examples of 2D manifolds embedded in 3D spaces include spheres, donuts, and double rubber-ring-toys your dogs tug at with one another. A Klein bottle is also a 2D manifold, but it must be embedded in R4 (3D depictions include self-intersecting surfaces which is misleading if illustrative).<o:p></o:p></p><p>The point (of course) of adding "hyper" is to remind Nick that a manifold needn't be restricted to 2 or even 3 dimensions, even though visualizing those is fruitless. For more intuition on the topic, I refer Nick to E.A. Abbot's _Flatland, a Romance of Many Dimensions_ (1884). A. Square (the protagonist) struggles with similar questions, but only in 2D, giving us some sympathy (and sense of mostly undeserved superiority?)<o:p></o:p></p><p><ugly description of internal combustion engine (imperfect and misleading) manifolds deleted><o:p></o:p></p><p>-Steve<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-----------------------------------<br>Frank Wimberly<br><br>My memoir:<br><a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br><br>My scientific publications:<br><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br><br>Phone (505) 670-9918<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, 8:52 PM Nick Thompson <<a href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net">nickthompson@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I am sure it helps a lot of people; just not me. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I need a metaphor. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Nick </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Nicholas S. Thompson</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Clark University</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Friam [mailto:<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Wimberly<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 08, 2019 8:43 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we behave?)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Succinctly, and I may leave something out, a manifold is a topological space for which there is a homeomorphism between every open set and an open set in Rn for some n. More concretely, lines and surfaces are manifolds but things get complicated in higher dimensions. That probably doesn't help.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-----------------------------------<br>Frank Wimberly<br><br>My memoir:<br><a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br><br>My scientific publications:<br><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br><br>Phone (505) 670-9918<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, 8:27 PM Nick Thompson <<a href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net" target="_blank">nickthompson@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Lee, <br><br>Just to bend the thread a bit further, is "excess meaning" a term of art for<br>you? It seems very close to the term "surplus meaning" which was used in a<br>famous article assigned to all Psychology graduate students in the sixties<br>on the distinction between hypothetical constructs and intervening<br>variables. Wondering if your term has the same meaning and if it has a<br>life somewhere.<br><br>As to the convex hull I went from there to the overturned boat in NCIS and<br>thence to "manifold" which, when the term is deployed by mathematicians I<br>always think of a shroud, like a blanket dropped over some lumpy thing to<br>contain it, roughly. Which, now that I mention it, makes me want to explain<br>wtf you mathematicians mean when you use the word manifold. <br><br>If that's not a thoroughly bent thread I don't know what is. <br><br>Nick <br><br>Nicholas S. Thompson<br>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology<br>Clark University<br><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/" target="_blank">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</a><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Friam [mailto:<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>] On Behalf Of<br><a href="mailto:lrudolph@meganet.net" target="_blank">lrudolph@meganet.net</a><br>Sent: Friday, March 08, 2019 7:04 PM<br>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>Subject: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we behave?)<br><br>Steve writes in relevant part:<br><br>> My position is that I favor each and every one of us taking whatever <br>> responsibility for understanding our own "convex hull" of <br>> capability/knowledge/intuition as we are capable of and "managing" it <br>> to the best of our ability.<br><br>The quotation marks around the phrase 'convex hull' and the word 'managing'<br>presumably signal that they are being used non-literally, and (I guess)<br>metaphorically. I would particularly like Steve, if he is willing, to delve<br>into the intended metaphor in the first case. On the one hand, lots of my<br>work uses more or less geometry; on the other, in lots of my other work I<br>use metaphor; and I even think and write about metaphor. So it's likely<br>that I'm taking the metaphor more seriously than intended.<br><br>With that disclaimer: in the technical contexts I'm familiar with, to pass<br>from something X to the convex hull of X has the effect of (1) 'filling in<br>holes in X', in a well-defined manner that is (2) as economical as possible<br>and (3) (therefore) unique. Which (if any) of those properties are<br>reflected, and how, in the case that X is our<br>"capability/knowledge/intuition"? ... I could ramble on a lot more but will<br>start with that.<br><br><br><br><br><br>============================================================<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe<br><a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<br><br><br>============================================================<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br>to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>============================================================<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br>to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>============================================================<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div></body></html>