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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Gosh, Russ; thanks. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Really! It does help to be ignorant. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Talking to you guys is like wandering in a field of wonders. (Or is that wondering in a field of wanders? I can never tell. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Nick <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Nicholas S. Thompson<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Clark University<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Friam [mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Russ Abbott<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 27, 2019 10:58 AM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] A question for tomorrow<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>One of the most attractive things about your posts is how charming they are. They are so well written! Thank you for keeping the discussion at such a civilized and enjoyable level -- even when I don't agree with you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-- Russ Abbott <br>Professor, Computer Science<br>California State University, Los Angeles<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 9:44 AM <<a href="mailto:lrudolph@meganet.net">lrudolph@meganet.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>Frank writes:<br>> I would hate to have to demonstrate that a modern computer is an instance<br>> of a Turing Machine. Among other things they usually have multiple<br>> processors as well as memory hierarchies. But I suppose it could be done,<br>> theoretically.<br><br>First a passage from a chapter I contributed to a book edited by a<br>graduate student Nick knows (Zack Beckstead); I have cut out a bit in the<br>middle which aims at a different point not under consideration here.<br>===begin===<br>If talk of “machines” in the context of the human sciences seems out of<br>place, note that Turing (1936) actually introduces his “automatic machine”<br>as a formalization (thoroughly mathematical, though described in<br>suggestive mechanistic terms like “tape” and “scanning”) of “an idealized<br>*human* calculating agent” (Soare, 1996, p. 291; italics in the original),<br>called by Turing a “computer”. [...] As Turing remarks, “It is always<br>possible for the computer to break off from his work, to go away and<br>forget all about it, and later to come back and go on with it” (1936, p.<br>253). It seems to me that then it must also be “always possible for the<br>computer to break off” and never “come back” (in fact, this often happens<br>in the lives, and invariably upon the deaths, of non-idealized human<br>calculating agents).<br>===end===<br>Of course Turing's idealization of "an idealized *human* calculating<br>agent" also idealizes away the fact that human computers sometimes make<br>errors. A Turing machine doesn't make errors. But both the processors and<br>the memory of a modern computer can, and *must* make errors (however<br>rarely, and however good the error-detection). To at least that extent,<br>then, they are not *perfect* instantiations of Turing machines. On the<br>other hand, that very fact about them makes them (in some sense) *more*<br>like (actual) human calculating agents.<br><br>So, Nick, why are you asking what Turing machines think, instead of what<br>modern computers think? (Be careful how you answer that...)<br><br><br>============================================================<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br>to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>