<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">Last colonoscopy I was thoroughly anesthetized but totally conscious. In recovery room, doctor explaining he had removed three minor polyps and I interrupted to say I thought I counted four. Shocked look on his part then told me the fourth was more like a skin tag. The anesthesia did prevent feeling, just not consciousness. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Dave west</div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, at 8:35 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div dir="auto"><div style="font-family:Arial;">No. But people who are under light anesthesia such as during a colonoscopy sometimes talk. I don't think they remember that.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div><div style="font-family:Arial;">-----------------------------------<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Frank Wimberly<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">My memoir:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">My scientific publications:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Phone (505) 670-9918<br></div></div></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div class="qt-gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:32 PM Nick Thompson <<a href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net">nickthompson@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" class="qt-gmail_quote"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="qt-m_-1887162014721862930WordSection1"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Oh, yes. We agree that I was unconscious. And if you had been there, you would have experienced my unconsciousness. But did I? I think a person who adopts your position has to say, “No.”<u></u><u></u></span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Nicholas S. Thompson<u></u><u></u></span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology<u></u><u></u></span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Clark University<u></u><u></u></span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"><a rel="noreferrer" href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193)" class="colour">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">From:</span></span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> Friam [mailto:<a rel="noreferrer" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Wimberly<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 27, 2019 12:16 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a rel="noreferrer" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] A Question For Tomorrow<u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u><br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Yes, you were unconscious. As you know, I had that experience a few days ago.<u></u><u></u><br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u><br></p></div><div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt;" class="qt-MsoNormal">Frank<u></u><u></u><br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div style="font-family:Arial;">-----------------------------------<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Frank Wimberly<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">My memoir:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">My scientific publications:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Phone (505) 670-9918<u></u><u></u><br></div><p></p></div></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u><br></p><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:13 PM Nick Thompson <<a rel="noreferrer" href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net">nickthompson@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u><br></p></div><blockquote style="border-top-width:initial;border-right-width:initial;border-bottom-width:initial;border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:initial;border-image-source:initial;border-image-slice:initial;border-image-width:initial;border-image-outset:initial;border-image-repeat:initial;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;"><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Hi Frank, </span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">The problem is that one has immediately to ask, what is the contrast class of experiencing consciousness? Experiencing non-consciousness? I think for your line of thinking, where consciousness is direct, that’s an oxymoron. For my line of thinking, when I woke up from my surgery and 24 hours had passed, I had a powerful experience of my non-consciousness. </span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Nick </span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Nicholas S. Thompson</span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology</span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Clark University</span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"><a rel="noreferrer" href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193)" class="colour">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a></span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">From:</span></span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> Friam [mailto:<a rel="noreferrer" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Wimberly<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 27, 2019 11:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a rel="noreferrer" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] A Question For Tomorrow</span></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u><br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Jon,<u></u><u></u><br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">How about "experiences consciousness" in place of has consciousness.<u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Frsnk<u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u><br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div style="font-family:Arial;">-----------------------------------<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Frank Wimberly<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">My memoir:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">My scientific publications:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Phone (505) 670-9918<u></u><u></u><br></div><p></p></div></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u><br></p><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 11:03 AM Jon Zingale <<a rel="noreferrer" href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u><br></p></div><blockquote style="border-top-width:initial;border-right-width:initial;border-bottom-width:initial;border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:initial;border-image-source:initial;border-image-slice:initial;border-image-width:initial;border-image-outset:initial;border-image-repeat:initial;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt;"><div><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">Nick,</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font"> </span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">I love that the title of this thread is 'A question for tomorrow'.</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">My position continues to be that the label `conscious` is meaningful,</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">though along with you, I am not sure what language to use around it.</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">For instance, can something <i>have</i> consciousness? That said, a</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">conservative scoping of the phenomena I would wish to describe</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">with <i>consciousness language</i> begins with granting consciousness</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">to more than 7 billion things on this planet alone. Presently, for those</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">that agree thus far, it appears that the only way to synthesize new things</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">with consciousness is to have sex (up to some crude equivalence).</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">This constraint seems an unreasonable limitation and so the problem</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">of synthesizing consciousness strikes me as reasonably near, ie.</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font"> `a question for tomorrow` and not some distant future.</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font"> </span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">You begin by asking about the Turing machine, an abstraction which</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">summarizes what we can say about processing information. Here,</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">I am going to extend Lee's comment and ask that we consider</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">particular implementations or better particular embodiments.</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font"> </span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">Hopefully said without too much hubris, given enough time and</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">memory, I can compute anything that a Turing machine can compute.</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">The games `Magic the Gathering` and `Mine Craft` are Turing</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">complete. I would suspect that under some characterization, the</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">Mississippi river is Turing complete. It would be a real challenge</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">for me state what abstractions like `Mine Craft` experience, but</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">sometimes I can speak to my own experience. Oscar Hammerstein</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">mused about what Old Man River knows.</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font"> </span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">Naively, it seems to me that some kind of information processing,</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">though not sufficient, is necessary for experience and for a foundations</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">for consciousness. Whether the information processor needs to be</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">Turing complete is not immediately obvious to me, perhaps a finite-</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">state machine will do. Still, I do not think that a complete description of</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">consciousness (or whatever it means to experience) can exist without</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">speaking to how it is that a thing comes to sense its world.</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font"> </span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">For instance, in the heyday of analogue synthesizers, musicians</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">would slog these machines from city to city, altitude to altitude,</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">desert to rain-forested coast and these machines would notoriously</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">respond in kind. Their finicky capacitors would experience the</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">change and changes in micro-farads would ensue. What does an</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">analogue synthesizer know?</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font"> </span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">Cheers,</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font">Jonathan Zingale</span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:Garamond, serif" class="font"> </span></span><u></u><u></u><br></p></div></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div style="font-family:Arial;">============================================================<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">to unsubscribe <a rel="noreferrer" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">archives back to 2003: <a rel="noreferrer" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">FRIAM-COMIC <a rel="noreferrer" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<u></u><u></u><br></div><p></p></blockquote></div></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div style="font-family:Arial;">============================================================<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">to unsubscribe <a rel="noreferrer" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">archives back to 2003: <a rel="noreferrer" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">FRIAM-COMIC <a rel="noreferrer" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<u></u><u></u><br></div><p></p></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">============================================================<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"> to unsubscribe <a rel="noreferrer noreferrer" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"> archives back to 2003: <a rel="noreferrer noreferrer" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"> FRIAM-COMIC <a rel="noreferrer noreferrer" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<br></div></blockquote></div><div>============================================================<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br></div><div>to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<br></div><div>archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/<br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove<br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>