<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>"Pain is instructive." Read that in a book once, don't remember
which one.</p>
<p>But pain really is what you make of it. "Damage sensor" or
"threat indicator" are such limited possibilities. Pain is
"ecstasy," pain is "erotic," pain is "illuminating," pain is a
means to the transcendental.</p>
<p>Nick — as a fan of Pierce's triads, have you ever explored J.G.
Bennet's epistemological triads?</p>
<p>also, if the Turing machine, the programmer, and the 'user' form
an appropriate triad, might it be said that the Turing machine
'knows' what the programmer programmed and the user observes? None
of the three elements "possess" that knowledge in isolation, but
'triadically' they all do.</p>
<p>dave west</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/29/19 7:53 AM, Nick Thompson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:021501d4fe4f$dfd66bf0$9f8343d0$@earthlink.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Steve,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Oh,
all right. Threat of damage. I am truly puzzled by the
function of pain. I mean, pain in my ankle causes me to
favor my ankle. But what good is gut pain? Or headaches,
for instance. Clearly, from an evolutionary standpoint, the
function of pain must be what it leads you to do. My heart
pain was in my elbow. What’s with that? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Well,
you say; the body can’t get everything right. But those
mistakes seem really bonehead ones. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Nicholas
S. Thompson<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Emeritus
Professor of Psychology and Biology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Clark
University<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a
href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
Friam [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Steven A Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 28, 2019 10:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] A Question For Tomorrow<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Nick -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">>I
think of “pain” as a damage sensor. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I think of "pain" as a "threat" indicator. A great deal of
the pain I've experienced in my life was not really
commensurate with the damage that has already occurred. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Touching a hot stove doesn't always lead to significant
damage if you react quickly to the pain.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In my late teens, I had a dentist tell me that the "pain" I
was feeling from his drill was really from the *heat* of the
drill, not direct damage to any nerve. I had complained that
the novacaine was more disturbing than anything I felt when he
was working on me. He said "I can do it without novacaine
next time, if you prefer". He said that the time he saves not
waiting for the novacaine to kick in allows him to run the
drill at a lower speed and go more carefully/slowly and that
if I was willing to signal him if I began to feel pain by
raising a hand and promised not to panic, he would prefer
that. Sure enough, It worked and I haven't had novacaine
since excepting one root canal. Most dentists seem perfectly
familiar with this alternative. The dentist who did the root
canal *promised* me that no matter how slow she went, the
process of killing and cleaning out the root would be the most
excruciating pain I ever felt without novacaine. I didn't
argue. I felt more than a little during the deep
file-plunging. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I don't associate a headache with "damage" though I do
acknowledge it as some kind of warning... often nothing more
than mild dehydration. I could pop a few ibuprofen and
ignore the pain or I could drink a glass or two of water and
take the lesson my body was offering me. A concussion or
tumor or aneurism? A different matter I suppose.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I *HATE* ice-cream headaches, even though I know they will
pass quickly if I quite gulping it down. My partner Mary
doesn't get ice-cream headaches, in her case the same class of
pain settled under one of her shoulder blades. Once again, a
glass of water is a good remedy for me...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I have never had "phantom pain" but that is another example I
think of how Pain != Damage?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Glad to Frank's surgery (apparently) went well. I hope he's
back on the Tennis Court soon!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> - Steve<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
archives back to 2003: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>