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<p>Dave -</p>
<p>Thanks for the reference. I was literally *dreaming* in orbital
mechanics for several months last summer. I'm not sure what that
was about except maybe being a 21st generation variation on the
running, swimming, skipping, swinging, careening, flying dreams
that were common in my childhood. <br>
</p>
<p>Hope things are going well over there in the shadow of
windmills...</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
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cite="mid:ef564095-a9a5-4193-b4f3-2daa738e05ba@www.fastmail.com">
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<div style="font-family:Arial;">Daniel Suarez’s latest book,
Delta-V, is great read - lots about the junk in orbit, the
futility of Mars, and the viability of asteroid mining. Even has
a Musk type ‘hero’.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">dve west<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div>On Mon, May 27, 2019, at 9:12 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="qt">
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-moz-forward-container"><another long-winded
anecdote> <br>
</div>
<div class="qt-moz-forward-container">
<div style="font-family:Arial;">I was born "under the rising
sign of Sputnik" in 1957 (S1 & S2 went up late that
year). I was just about 1 year old when Explorer 1 and
then Vanguard 1 went up in early 1958. Vanguard 1, 2, 3 are
still up there, being in an unusually high orbit for the
time. The crowdsource <a
href="https://www.universetoday.com/100744/citizen-science-old-school-style-the-true-tale-of-operation-moonwatch/"
moz-do-not-send="true">Moonwatch</a> project was already
developing and was used to try to track/find Vanguard, but
the first siting of an artificial satellite was of Sputnik.
Ham radio folks were tracking the radio signals, but visual
siting (telescope or binoculars) was much trickier.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"> <br>
</div>
<p>Some here were born early enough to have been young adults
at that time and probably have first-hand memories of these
events, and perhaps even attempting their own observations?
My first experience with direct satellite observation was
*probably* when the <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Echo"
moz-do-not-send="true">Echo </a>"satelloons" were up. At
roughly 100' diameter with a deliberately reflective surface
(passive microwave relays), they were apparently highly
visible to the naked eye. <br>
</p>
<p>We've come a long way baby! </anecdote><br>
</p>
<p><speculation> We (humans collectively) now have
something approaching 10,000 satellites or fragments in
orbit... one man's "trash" is another man's "treasure" of
course. I haven't heard Musk announce a SpaceX "Salvage
Operation" yet, but at some point, that seems like a viable
business, given the expense of launch... the materials in
derelict satellites would seem to be valuable once a method
for "recycling" those materials could be developed. I
believe we are still in the early stages of a "radiation" of
design-species in satellites, not having settled on any
specific body plan and functional conceit... some might
eventually depend on a modest amount of "foraging" once in
orbit? <br>
</p>
<p>Delta-V is clearly the most valuable resource which for all
but solar/mag-sail propulsion depends on reaction mass...
which suggests turning "big ones into little ones" with
space junk (grapefruit to bus-sized objects) into streams of
(ionized) particles as small as individual molecules.
Variations on "tether" and "sail" technology also may be
good uses of captured "space junk". A big challenge to all
this is the orbital mechanics sophistication to use less
DeltaV matching orbits to "catch" junk than is gained by
capturing it. Oh yeh... and still do something actually
useful besides just wander around eating and pooping things.<br>
</p>
<p><speculation><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="qt-moz-cite-prefix">On 5/27/19 10:09 AM, Owen
Densmore wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAN_LYRn3N=30DcjFjZDF1aiMwjKNGTDHAAnj3P_suAjnKAQkuA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:arial, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"
class="qt-gmail_default">A TLDR post. It points to a
video of the "train" but brings up problems with the
eventual number of the critters.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"
class="qt-gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"
class="qt-gmail_default"> -- Owen<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"
class="qt-gmail_default">
<p style=""><span style="color:rgb(34, 34, 34)"
class="colour"><span style="font-family:Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:18px" class="size"><a
href="https://tracking.tldrnewsletter.com/CL0/https:%2F%2Fwww.geekwire.com%2F2019%2Fsightings-spacexs-starlink-satellites-spark-awe-astronomical-angst%2F/1/0100016af8bd48bf-94af9903-5a99-4bdc-914c-330937053b7f-000000/1p5yHFi__nt-eWCq_QXyb1VvhqluhaiG5EZV4OIiDqY=90"
moz-do-not-send="true">Sightings of SpaceX’s
Starlink satellites spark awe — and
astronomical angst (3 minute read)</a></span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p style=""><span style="color:rgb(34, 34, 34)"
class="colour"><span style="font-family:Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:16px" class="size">SpaceX has
launched 60 of its Starlink broadband satellites
into the sky, creating a chain of satellites
that could be observed by enthusiasts in a
number of locations around the world. Some
astronomers have expressed concern that the
brightness from the satellites will interfere
with observations of the night sky, especially
when all 11,000 satellites are deployed. Elon
Musk has confirmed that the satellites will be
dark when the stars are visible.</span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div class="qt-gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, May 27, 2019
at 9:57 AM Stephen Guerin <<a
href="mailto:redfishgroupllc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">redfishgroupllc@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="auto">Any idea on how far separated ground
cameras would need to to get triangulate 3d using a
shift in the apparent RA and declination of the
background start field?<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div class="qt-gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, May 27,
2019, 8:49 AM Roger Critchlow <<a
href="mailto:rec@elf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">rec@elf.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Arial;">The prediction has
shifted to a few minutes earlier tonight,
appears 20h53, disappears 21h04, track passes
close to Vega then close to Arcturus. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- rec --<br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div class="qt-gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, May
26, 2019 at 10:15 PM Roger Critchlow <<a
rel="noreferrer" href="mailto:rec@elf.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">rec@elf.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204, 204);padding-left:1ex;"
class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Arial;">They were
early, about 21h40m at the meridian, three
were bright from 45d altitude, others may
have flickered into visibility or may have
been my imagination. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,
sans-serif" class="font">The predicted
pass in Santa Fe for Monday the 27th of
May is from 21h01m10s to <span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"
class="colour">21h12m23s, from SW to NE
again, passing close to Vega. Give
yourself some slack on the time, the
speed depends on the altitude and the
satellites are supposed to be boosting
higher ever 90 minutes.</span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,
sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"
class="colour"></span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,
sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"
class="colour">-- rec --</span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,
sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"
class="colour"></span></span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div class="qt-gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun,
May 26, 2019 at 12:03 PM Roger Critchlow
<<a rel="noreferrer"
href="mailto:rec@elf.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">rec@elf.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204, 204);padding-left:1ex;"
class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><span
style="font-family:arial, sans-serif"
class="font">According to <a
rel="noreferrer"
href="http://calsky.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">calsky.com</a>
the trail of the 60 starlink
satellites rises in Santa Fe this
evening at <span style="color:rgb(0,
0, 0)" class="colour">21h40m28s in
the SW </span><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"
class="colour">and sets at </span><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"
class="colour">21h51m43s in the NE.
They are 8.5mag at the horizon which
is too dim to see, but they should
reach 4.7mag at the meridian at </span><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"
class="colour">21h46m17s. Looks
like they'll pass close to the last
star in the big dipper's handle.</span></span>
<br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,
sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"
class="colour"></span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,
sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="color:#000000" class="colour">--
rec --</span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,
sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="color:#000000" class="colour"></span></span><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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