<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Dave,<div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="">Your commentary below re: Husserl made we wonder about ways to effectively use, as metaphor or thought experiment tool, the notion of "augmented reality." There is some interesting slipperyness: is the 'augment' the objective reality superimposed on the subjective Reality; is the 'augment' our personal idiosyncratic perception of Reality projected on the objective Real outside?</span></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Or are they things of different kinds, peers, each confined to its own space, yet somehow mapped? Language is (among other things) a set of representations in the minds of language users, which admits certain structure-preserving maps to events-in-matter or events-in-the intersubjective. Yet language as the domain of such maps is not the same kind of system as the events in matter or in the intersubjective.(footnote) When to say either is projected onto the other could be yet a third question (?). How should we understand that things can be of different kinds but admit structure-preserving maps? On one hand, that is a dumb question by this time, because so much math has been built up around structure preservation across representations. But in the domain you are talking about, while it is nice to know that math exists, it is not clear we know how to use it to get at the things we want to describe. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>Eric</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Footnote: (In other respects, of course it is, but not the respect relevant to this level of abstraction and this view of the structure-preserving map.)</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class="">davew<br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, at 12:15 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">Hi Nick,<br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-">The part of the book that prompted me to forward it to the list was most of the first 3 (short) chapters.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-">I think there are two parallel discourses going on, which are not about the same thing, and which probably are not incompatible, but which also may not be part of a cognitively unified sense of understanding.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-">One thread concerns the choice or construction of whatever specifics we wish to regard as “true”, and what we take to be the source of confidence in those choices. For Pierce’s characterization of scientific method, inter-subjective observation and stress-testing, etc., as the distillation of the better parts of common empirical practice, all of what you say in your later paragraph is stuff I agree with and think is correct.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-">The other thread, which is where I think Ortega is writing, is closer to the phenomenologists, as represented (to the extent that I understand the approach) in Husserl. In the early chapters, to set up a system for understanding why countries that had undergone the enlightenment would choose to throw it away, Ortega argues that the Homo sapiens characterization of man is slightly off the point. For his purposes, man is not all that good at knowing very much, nor is the knowing the most central thing that sets him apart. Instead, Ortega argues, a better starting point in thinking about what humans are is the relentless need to construct a domain of experience that gives guidance in what to do next. Since in every “now” there is a need to navigate some choice of what to do, and since the experience of each now is constantly being superseded by the following now, the need to be constantly constructing an experiential edifice is the relentless driver of human nature and behavior. The awareness that there is such an edifice, and that it is something constructed, seems very close to Husserl’s arguments that (in my language) we think of experience as a transparent window through which we passively receive a reality, but it is more like a painted surface on which we are constructing things we believe to be co-registered with something outside the window. The assertion that we can only look at our own painting, and that it is our nature to be unable to see it as our own painting, because to function we need to use it as a transparent thing seen “through”, are I think Husserl’s conception of what “experience” (or Experience) is distinct from some list of “propositions that are true”. These frameworks of experience, as a system from which one can extract choices, seem to be what Ortega is calling “the World” for each of us, or in a zeitgeist carried by a generation.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-">I am taking my characterization of Husserl’s position at second hand from people who have put in time with him that I have not, but I think he argues that for Experience, in this formal sense, to occupy a place outside awareness and to not be recognized as its own thing in our thought system, is a source of distortion or potential inconsistency. I don’t know in how far that is true, since I don’t think Husserl, or Ortega, or anybody modern, has an important objection to the Piercian system for choosing which things to label “true” about empirical matters. I find the discussion interesting because I see it as an effort to give a concept decomposition to dimensions of cognition or awareness. Even If being unaware of Experience in this sense is not an important source of error, we seem to have little concept system to discuss empirically what the aware state “is”, and I wonder if the thing Husserl and Ortega are after goes part of the way to supplying one relevant such concept.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-">This is not my day job, and thank god for that, so all of the above is “grain of salt” commentary. Fortunately, the books exist as things-in-themselves, and anybody can start fresh with them.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-">Best,<br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-">Eric<br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="qt-" type="cite"><div class="qt-">On Jul 29, 2019, at 12:00 AM, Nick Thompson <<a class="qt-" href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net">nickthompson@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-WordSection1" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Eric,<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Can you direct me to any particular passages or chapters in the book? I am unlikely to read the whole thing, but I want to know your thought.<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I rummaged around in the<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://books.google/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">Books.google</a><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>site for a bit and found this:<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span id="qt-cid:image002.jpg@01D545A0.913A2B10" class=""><image002.jpg></span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If so, I don’t think I was saying anything this profound. I was just trying to get in on the ground floor of the “skepticaller-than-thou” battle I saw developing. <span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">There are either, or there are not, consistencies in our experiences, in my experiences, in your experiences, and in those we represent to one another. If there are not, then we have nothing to talk about, and all talk is meaningless. If there are, If somebody cares to call these, the world, then all power to them. To announce that something is “the world” or “the real” or “true” or “exists outside experience” is only to announce that someday the speaker believes people will come to agree on it, the way we have come to agree on so many things in the last 300 years of science. If we share that belief, that’s one heluva heuristic, and it is the heuristic that makes science possible, but it is, after all, only a heuristic. I deplore a skepticism that drinks only 9/10ths of the potent, and then puts the glass down, burps, and walks away with a smug look on its face.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Nick <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Nicholas S. Thompson<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Clark University<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a class="qt-" href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">-----Original Message-----<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">From: Friam [<a class="qt-" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>] On Behalf Of David Eric Smith<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 5:19 PM<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a class="qt-" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">friam@redfish.com</a>><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">Subject: Re: [FRIAM] All hail confirmation bias!<br class=""></div></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I think Ortega y Gasset had things to say about that in Man and Crisis.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I haven’t read enough to know yet whether I think his take is important. But it would be hard to find someone who picked up the question in terms more identical to those that Nick uses below to frame it.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Eric<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> On Jul 28, 2019, at 3:23 PM, Nick Thompson <<a class="qt-" href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">nickthompson@earthlink.net</span></a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> While we're getting rid of concepts, let's just get rid of this foolish, unsubstantiated concept, "the world." What sort of heuristic is THAT?<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> N<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Nicholas S. Thompson<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> -----Original Message-----<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> From: Friam [<a class="qt-" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com</span></a>] On Behalf Of Steven A<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Smith<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 11:41 AM<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> To:<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">friam@redfish.com</span></a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] All hail confirmation bias!<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> I KNEW that confirmation bias was a problem and NOW this confirms it!<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> I TOLEYA!<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> On 4/24/19 5:25 PM, uǝlƃ<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="font" style="font-family: "Segoe UI Symbol", sans-serif;">☣</span><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>> Our World Isn't Organized into Levels<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="https://philpapers.org/rec/POTOWI?ref=mail" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">https://philpapers.org/rec/POTOWI?ref=mail</span></a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> In my view, our adherence to the levels concept in the face of the<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> systematic problems plaguing it amounts to a failure to recognize<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> structure we’re imposing on the world, to instead mistake this as<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> structure we are reading off the world. Attachment to the concept of<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> levels of organization has, I think, contributed to underestimation<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> of the complexity and variability of our world, including the<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> significance of causal interaction across scales. This has also<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> inhibited our ability to see limitations to our heuristic and to<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> imagine other contrasting heuristics, heuristics that may bear more<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> in common with what our world turns out to actually be like. Let’s<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>>> at least entertain the possibility that the invocation of levels can mislead scientific and philosophical investigations more than it informs them. I suggest that the onus is on advocates of levels of organization to demonstrate the well-foundedness and usefulness of this concept.<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> ============================================================<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> at St. John's College to unsubscribe<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> archives back to 2003:<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> FRIAM-COMIC<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>by Dr. Strangelove<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> ============================================================<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> at St. John's College to unsubscribe<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> archives back to 2003:<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> FRIAM-COMIC<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>by Dr. Strangelove<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">============================================================<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">archives back to 2003:<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><br class=""></div><div class="qt-" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">FRIAM-COMIC<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="qt-" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);"><span class="colour" style="color: windowtext;">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>by Dr. Strangelove<br class=""></div></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Helvetica;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 12px;">============================================================</span></span><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Helvetica;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 12px;">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span></span><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Helvetica;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 12px;">Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College</span></span><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Helvetica;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 12px;">to unsubscribe<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><a class="qt-" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Helvetica;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 12px;">archives back to 2003:<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><a class="qt-" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Helvetica;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 12px;">FRIAM-COMIC<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><a class="qt-" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span class="font" style="font-family: Helvetica;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 12px;"><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>by Dr. Strangelove</span></span><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="">============================================================<br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br class=""></div><div class="">Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br class=""></div><div class="">to unsubscribe<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" class="">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br class=""></div><div class="">archives back to 2003:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" class="">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM-COMIC<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>by Dr. Strangelove<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">============================================================</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to unsubscribe<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">archives back to 2003:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">FRIAM-COMIC<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>by Dr. Strangelove</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>