<div dir="auto">Straw man:<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nick: People don't think, they only behave.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank: You reached that conclusion by thinking.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nick: You presume to have observed my reaching the conclusion.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank: I am certain your mind works like mine.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nick: How could you know that? You are a Cartesian.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank: And proud of it.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nick: People don't feel; they infer their feelings from their behavior. They recognize hunger from eating or food seeking behavior.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank: I know I'm hungry from feeling hungry. I could feel hungry while totally still, with no observable behavior.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nick: No because...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Etc., etc....</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">No resolution to date.</div><div dir="auto"><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">-----------------------------------<br>Frank Wimberly<br><br>My memoir:<br><a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br><br>My scientific publications:<br><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br><br>Phone (505) 670-9918</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:17 PM Steven A Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>We love our "flocking" models but FRIAM is less of a
'birds-of-a-feather' group than something much harder to
similize. It feels to me that some of our conversations are a bit
flocky or schooly (rarely herdy) but others are more geophysical
like flares or eruptions... a good schoolyard "pileon"
occasionally happens as well... and then there are... as we are
now contemplating, the long dark-tea-times of our collective-soul.<br>
</p>
<div class="m_2953816853100557987moz-cite-prefix">On 9/12/19 10:04 AM, Gary Schiltz
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">FRIAM is such a strange beast. At times full of
philosophical discourse that flies far above my head, other
times full of irreverent inanities that defy categorization, and
occasionally even with something to do with complexity. And then
the periodic deafening silence that makes me realize just how
much I would miss it if it were to go away. Long live FRIAM.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 10:45
AM Nick Thompson <<a href="mailto:nickthompson@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nickthompson@earthlink.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_2953816853100557987gmail-m_-5697833840071397830WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Frank,
Dave, </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Well
I AM tied up with relocation issues, so haven’t been
paying close attention, but …</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
just did a search in my inbox and there is nothing
from FRIAM from 24 August on. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
have always understood that the Friam-Owner. is like
the wine pourer at a classical “symposium”, more or
less watering the wine to maintain the flow and
quality of the conversation. He won’t admit to it of
course, but every once in a while He “shuts me off”
from friam when He thinks I have become too …
agitated? I assume He is also gently modulating your
contributions in the same way, as a beneficent god
should. I don’t know how He gets the time to do it,
but nothing else could possibly explain the fact that
sometimes our emails just go missing for a while. So,
I didn’t get alarmed when I stopped receiving FRIAM
correspondence in late August. I just assumed that
the All Powerful Friam-Owner was giving me a rest. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thank
you APF-O. We love you and worship you. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Nick
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Ps.
Let me know if you don’t get this message. (};-\)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Nicholas
S. Thompson</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Emeritus
Professor of Psychology and Biology</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Clark
University</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Friam [mailto:<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Wimberly<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 12, 2019 8:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] query and observation</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dave,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Friam list remains as you can
see but is sort of a trickle. I posted a couple of
items about the Cooper/Colbert interview and
something I can't remember but they weren't up to
the high intellectual standard which engages you,
Glen, Marcus, Nick, et al. Glen did comment
insightfully. Nick will be back in Santa Fe soon;
maybe the change in location will stimulate him.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">Frank</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:42 AM
Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello All,<br>
<br>
Traffic on the FRIAM list seems to have ground to a
halt, from my reception point in Amsterdam - i.e. I
have seen nothing for some time. Not in spam filter,
so question is has the list trickled to a stop or
just not making it across the Atlantic.?<br>
<br>
Observation: an interesting coincidence arising from
reading a new book, The Case Against Reality, How
evolution hid the truth from our eyes, by Donald D.
Hoffman, professor of cognitive science at UC
Irvine. Main thesis is that what we perceive is but
a constructed, via evolution, "interface" and not a
veridical perception of "Reality." <br>
<br>
Not a new idea but the evolution / survival /
fittest being the ones that see the optimal
interface instead of what is behind the interface is
interesting.<br>
<br>
Coincidence comes from simultaneously rereading
Heidegger and Gadamer, and even some Peirce, and
seeing apparent parallels between "interface,:
"interpretation," and "experience." Feels like a
lot of Nick's Monism convictions might be
illuminated by looking at these works in
juxtaposition.<br>
<br>
dave west<br>
<br>
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by Dr. Strangelove</p>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_2953816853100557987mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="m_2953816853100557987moz-quote-pre">============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe <a class="m_2953816853100557987moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
archives back to 2003: <a class="m_2953816853100557987moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="m_2953816853100557987moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br>
to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<br>
</blockquote></div>