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p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">Steve,<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Have not read Mae-Wan Ho's work, but will in next couple of weeks. Did read something about 'secret life of water' that was more mystical and more like homeopathy but those books too are at home and I do not remember authors or titles.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">It seems like the ideas that seem to capture my imagination - Sheldrake, quantum consciousness among them - tend to be labeled as "pseudo." This is annoying, first because my hermeneutical hackles bristle whenever anyone tries to assert their interpretation as privileged over someone else's; and because there seem to be so many cross-connections that afford all within the net to gain plausibility simply from being in the net.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"> Neat book with a homeopathy element along with lots of mysticism and references to scholars with interests in other "psuedo domains": <i>The End of Mr. Y </i>by Scarlett Thomas. Really fun read.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 4:40 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><p>Dave -<br></p><p>It felt a strange coincidence, but in the early days of SFx, we
were holding a "blender" on the topic of morphometrics at the same
time that Sheldrake was visiting SFe to speak at a "Science of
Consciousness" conference. This was the meeting at which he was
stabbed by a 'fan' who was apparently disturbed going in but more
disturbed by Sheldrake's ideas?<br></p><p><a href="https://boingboing.net/2008/04/09/biologist-rupert-she.html" class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext">https://boingboing.net/2008/04/09/biologist-rupert-she.html</a><br></p><p>Our "morphometrics" was an acutely more mundane conversation
about the practicalities of starting with laser scans of
paleontological and archaelogical artifacts and doing statistical
analysis to try to reveal "hidden" correlations. For example, we
were hoping to be able to recognize the "hand" in objects such as
flaked lithic tools or hand-formed ceramics. <br></p><p>It is interesting to me that you bring up homeopathic "dilution
to nothing" based on the assumption that the water's
quasi-crystalline structure somehow holds something meaningful
from the original inoculant which had been titered into oblivion.<br></p><p>Are you familiar with Mae-Wan Ho's work in quasi-crystals in
water and water emulsions? I understand that where she (and
others more acutely) have taken her research to fundamentally
vitalistic places in a way that is hard to not dismiss as
pseudo-science, but the underlying science seems pretty sound?
My daughter who is a molecular biologist has been unable to
provide either confirmation nor refutation of the application of
this work in her own domain (flavivirii).<br></p><p>I naively discarded a personal/professional correspondence (typed
letter on letterhead ca 1984) from Roger Penrose in response to a
tiny bit of work I did in pre-quantum consciousness (:Cellular
automata in cytoskeletal lattices" : <a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167278984902598" class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167278984902598</a>).
Penrose was postulating that it was aperiodic tilings (surprise!)
that were at the root of consciousness (in human brains). This
was some years before his "Emperor's New Mind" and pursuit of
"Quantum Consciousness" (with my co-author Stuart Hameroff). I
am unable to get sufficient traction on contemporary QC work
including Penrose's nor Stu Kauffman's to know what I believe on
the topic. I am most sympathetic with the Pibram/Bohm
perspective, but that is more intuitive than anything.<br></p><p>I understand that Marcus' has moved from LANL to a day-job in
full-up Quantum Computing. I don't know that Q computing has any
implications for Q consciousness, but it would seem that it can't
help but lead to more experience with quantum effects translated
into human scales of time and space. <br></p><p>- Steve<br></p><div class="qt-moz-cite-prefix">On 9/16/19 12:20 AM, Prof David West
wrote:<br></div><blockquote cite="mid:cc578600-773a-438e-a1ff-5c1a9321b175@www.fastmail.com" type="cite"><div style="font-family:Arial;">Yes, Sheldrake,yearns for a kind
of metaphysical reality and scientific validity that still
eludes him. I think that have have reached, and are at risk of
blending with, homeopathy and the like cure like, the dilution
of "stuff" til there is no stuff left, but the "water has
memory." <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">All based, of course on shared
resonance.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Not sure about the data set. Most
of it is from him or true believers and suffers from finding
what you are looking for. But, because no one is really taking
him seriously, no one is presenting data sets that might prove
him wrong. Also, not a statistician so can't comment on
methodology or significance.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Another of those connection things
— a few years back, in a Quantum Consciousness type book, there
was a discussion of resonance starting from the vibrating
strings of physics fame to aggregates of strings creating
blended vibrations to larger aggregates creating "harmonies" and
feedback from "observers" blending everything — and when I was
reading that it seemed to "resonate with Sheldrake." Being quite
vague here, because the book is back home, but when I return I
will pick it up and look at it again.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, at 11:56 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:<br></div><blockquote id="qt-qt" type="cite"><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:00d001d56c0f$0685d100$13917300$@earthlink.net"><div class="qt-qt-WordSection1"><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Geez,
Steve,</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">I
didn’t know that morphs COULD resonate.</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">What
on earth are you talking about?</span></span></span><br></p></div></blockquote><p>What Dave just said in description of Sheldrake's theory of
"morphic resonance"... a resonant coupling amongst things
which have the same morphology (shape). In your case, you
and Dave apparently have similar "intellectual resonant
chambers" which, in this treatment "begin to resonate" as you
spend enough time "coupling" (in conversation). <br></p><p>Following the analogy (stronger/more-formal than a metaphor I
propose), when you "couple" with others who you end up
disagreeing with, I suspect it starts out a bit like a
barbershop quartet... one member hitting a tone and another
following by hitting the same tone, but as the progression
gets more complex, the *differences* in your tonality starts
to expose itself as dissonances. I credit you "harmonizing"
with Dave in this (and perhaps other) instance to Dave for
*trying* to help you find the same note (as I am here). <br></p><p>The Nick and Frank show (e.g. recent analogy to train
conductors) seems to be a deliberate study/applicatoin in
dissonance... one of you hits a note and the other
intuitively (or with great intellectual effort) factors the
composing frequencies of that note and responds with a new
note that has *none* or *few* of the same composing
frequencies, generating a complex set of beat frequencies
anew. I don't know how much this type of deliberate
dissonance is used in echolocating creatures (bats, cetaceans,
???) but finding *dissonance* seems potentially *more useful*
than resonance in some cases?<br></p><p>- Steve<br></p><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:00d001d56c0f$0685d100$13917300$@earthlink.net"><div class="qt-qt-WordSection1"><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"></span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Nick</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Nicholas S. Thompson</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Emeritus Professor of Psychology and
Biology</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Clark University</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193)" class="colour">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</span></a></span></span></span><br></p></div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(153, 51, 102)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><div><div style="border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">From:</span></span></span></b><span style="color:windowtext" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> Friam [<a class="qt-qt-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steven A Smith<br> <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 15, 2019 5:32 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a class="qt-qt-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Unmediated
perception - sheldrake</span></span></span></p></div></div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p> <br></p><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;"><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Interesting, David. With most people
I find that if we talk long enough, we disagree;
with you it mostly works the other way. Thank
you.</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Nick</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></blockquote><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">Looks like a case of morphic
resonance to me!<br></p></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><pre class="qt-qt-moz-quote-pre" wrap="">============================================================
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