<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">I just bought a book for a Dutch friend - 1001 Beers. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, at 6:15 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div style="font-family:Arial;">One thing the responses to your post haven't mentioned is that you flatten (or "thin" or "reduce") relativism to its most simple form. I find people tend to do this with pluralism, as well. And I think Marcus does a nice job of showing that nihilism isn't as thin as we may think, either.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Since I care most about pluralism, I'll make my argument there. A pluralist isn't required to believe in an infinity of things, only more than 1 thing. E.g., to my mind, those who believe the standard model's particle zoo is a problem may *still* be pluralists. But there's just too many fundamental objects. So, let's unify them down to, say, 3 things. But we don't necessarily have to unify them down to 1 thing. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Of course, pluralists need not be discretists, either. So, there's nothing special about 1 vs 2. What fractal dimension *should* have taught us is that there are probably competent ways to model reality that allow for, say, 1.001 fundamental types of thing ... or 13.7 or whatever. Oversimplification is a risk for any -ism unifier. And it seems like you've done that for relativism.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">On 11/15/19 3:47 AM, Eric Charles wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> The relativist asserts that competence-incompetence and stupid-smart have no tangible meaning. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Who is competent and who isn't? Eh, it depends on your point of view, and no point of view is better than another. The designation of "competence" is a colonialist activity providing illusory justification for the marginalization already oppressed groups, and while it has a valence, it has no basis in "reality" (i.e., it is bad, you should stop doing it, and you should deeply hate yourself for ever having had done it). To label the president as incompetent is to inappropriately invalidate his way of being in the world; ways of being are all equally valid. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Who is stupid and who isn't? Eh, it depends on your point of view, and no point of view is better than another.....<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> If you believe that SOME people ARE competent and/or smart, then you can't be a relativist. If you believe there is still some chance that competent and smart people can make a difference, you are not a nihilist. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Old Soviet Joke: A man walks into a shop and asks, "You wouldn't happen to have any fish, would you?". The shop assistant replies, "You've got it wrong – ours is a butcher's shop. We don't have any meat. You're looking for the fish shop across the road. There they don't have any fish!"<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">-- <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">☣ uǝlƃ<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">============================================================<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>