<div dir="auto">Steve,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You should write a memoir.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">-----------------------------------<br>Frank Wimberly<br><br>My memoir:<br><a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br><br>My scientific publications:<br><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br><br>Phone (505) 670-9918</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 10:42 AM Steven A Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Frank -</p>
<p>It is fascinating to hear that you were in the "belly of the
beast" if only for a short while. I suppose we have all been in
the belly of *some* beast in our various times.</p>
<p>My earliest years were without a telephone in the house
(camp-trailer in the woods) followed by several party lines
(shared in 2 cases amongst other USFS families in forest-camp
compounds) and understanding that the magical rings and voices
coming from the handsets in the house were modulated (whatever
that meant to a 3 year old) over the insulated bundles of wires
running from tree-to-tree and pole-to-pole... It wasn't hard to
understand the idea that if voices could travel over single wires,
that any one of us on a party line could pick up and hear the
other's voices during a conversation or even that the
volume/static on the line would abruptly change if someone picked
up (say to listen in?). It made perfect sense that such
resources (wires on poles) were very scarce and needed to be
shared... I had heard of operator-assisted calling which made
great sense (patch panels) but the idea that the pulses sent via
the spring-loaded rotary dial could "tell" a electromechanical
switch (my father showed me the one in the main location at the
second forest camp when I was about 5) and I remember
watching/hearing a call go through it... relays opening and
closing as ring pulses went through... <br>
</p>
<p>One of my friend's father was the local telephone lineman and he
was busy all the time either going out on trouble calls or doing
maintenance on the switches. Realizing that in a community of
roughly 300 (600 in the county at the time!) was keeping one man
busy (more than) full time doing this was my first taste of
"infrastructure". I don't know what kind of backup he had... I
never saw anyone else working with him nor heard of anyone else
employed... though I do know sometimes there were company trucks
parked at the fenced yard next to his house... probably for new
line buildout? Another father of a friend owned/operated the
local "vending" routes which included soda machines, candy
machines and best of all pinball machines. HIs territory must
have been pretty wide because our 300 town only had one soda/candy
machine at each of 2 gasoline stations and 3 pinball machines at
the drug/variety store. I got to see the ones in their shop
behind the house under repair opened up and really got a kick out
of trying to "trace the logic" of a coin-drop/lever-pull,
delivery-chute... and even better, the complex logic of a pinball
machine. Yet another father drove the propane delivery truck (he
had a boss who drove some, but he was the main driver) and another
who ran the local branch of the power - coop along with his wife.
They had more trucks that came in from the next large town (60
miles and maybe 1000 people?) to do major repairs/upgrades, but he
was out in his truck all the time fixing/installing *something*.
Several of these men ran an ad-hoc cable network in the core of
the village... nothing came in by antenna and I guess they had
their own up on a mountain with a rebroadcast system... the
network was down as much as it was up and while *some* of the
customers had to have been paying customers, it was these guys who
somewho cooperatively kept it going. I *knew* that someone
besides these men were *designing* and *building* the systems they
maintained (thought the cable TV thing was more DIY). </p>
<p>Many years later, we moved to a large town/small-city (2
supermarkets, a dozen motels and gas stations?) and our neighbors
at the edge of town owned the local AM radio station... they
solicited me to clean the station every Saturday and after a few
months of that I graduated to typing up station program logs and
then began to operate the station under supervision... they were
largely "automated" which meant 4 big carousels with 4-track
endless loop (similar to 8-track) cartidges that we would load
with music, PSAs and commercials which were then "programmed" by
inserting pins in different patch-panels... there were two
modes... for example, the system that took over on the top of hour
for the network news would inject one of a small handful of
instrumental tunes that could be faded/interrupted at-will to flip
over the newsfeed. The rest of the time, the system had a
priority stack and the commercial/PSAs stack had priority in the
sense that it wanted to play out it's queue within the allotted
time (usually one hour) no matter what... while the music queue
would simply play whenever one of the others were not... only
rarely (due to bad planning) would a commercial or PSA go
unplayed. Not every hour was different, but there were periods
(8-12AM, 1-5PM, 6-10PM) that had a particular character and there
was some variation within it. By the time I was 15 (Freshman in
HS) the station owners saw my diligence and curiosity (the Station
Engineer would take the time to explain most everything there to
me in as much detail as I had time for) and offered me a nighttime
live show which I ran for most of my HS years. I always had the
option to fire up the automated system, as I was also trying to do
my homework during that time. I went in to the station before
4PM to handle the 4-6 news programs (I can still hear Paul Harvey
ringing in my ears) and then the (automated) 6-7 PM "sundown
serenade" curated by the wife but executed by me (most of the
time). At 7 we rolled into "the Night Show" which was conceived
by the owners to be something for the "youth crowd". It was
nominally a Rock show but was really Top-40 by their measure...
We had the full array of classic rock vinyl in the shelves and I
was allowed to use (most of) it but there was the top-40 billboard
charts to be serviced which meant a lot of pop-rock and
country-rock and pop-pop. <br>
</p>
<p>Yet another exposure to the complexities of "programming" and
"logic" from a somewhat different perspective. The engineer at
the time had been on the predecessor to the NIF fusion project in
Livermore (MFE?) (designing/building the capacitor banks) and
clued me in a lot of things. He was a greasy-haired wiry little
hippy that drove an old italian convertible (very finicky with
dual carbs...) and had a penchant for visiting the bars/brothels
in Mexico (this was a border town) and probably got rolled by
someone at least once a year... and had the stories (and scuffs)
to tell about it. He taught me binary logic/arithmetic and showed
me how that related to the somewhat similar/different
discrete/analog systems behind the carousels (all the electronics
were exposed, so you could trace wires and watch relays
open/close) and even taught me the basics of analog circuits
including soldering, relays, power amplifiers/transmitters.
Later, as I went into the all-digital world of Computer Science,
It was as if I was learning about Mammals after growing up among
only Marsupials. Of course automobiles had their own share of
analog-discrete logic with an HV (timed) side and a 12V mostly
continuous (but with switches/relays) side. This was the 70s and
the autos of interest were mostly from the 50s/60s.<br>
</p>
<p>I went to LANL in 1981 to work on the Proton Storage Ring which
was in some ways the epitome of an anolog/digital hybrid systems
with huge subsystems being HV and HF while others were "utility"
(110/60) and yet others were TTL. The place was "in flux" all
the time... with magnetic fields (intended and unintended) coming
and going effecting everything. It was a quite the milieu.
Moving to HPC was both a relief and a whole new world... even
though I still worked with some analog systems, they were much
less dangerous and much less high speed... the digital stuff was
lickety-split (by those days standards) and the introduction of
vector and parallel (and eventually distributed) processing was
new and interesting. By the time I was mentoring others (90s),
the backgrounds were almost exclusively digital and most if not
all of the "kids" that came through had never even worked on their
own cars, much less vending machine or automated tape carousel
logic. </p>
<p>As Y2K approached, a consultant from SAIC was working in my
general area... we became friends... but his role and way of
thinking was incredibly foreign to me. One of his roles (he felt
like a plant from the military-industrial into the
military-scientific establishment) was to consult on Y2K
readiness. My system at the time had been hand-built on top of
UNIX (replacing a VMS system that was falling apart every day) by
a small team (3-5 of us) and while I did not know every line of
code in the system (I had written a good portion of it), we had
coding practices and standards and code-reviews and I was roughly
99.9% confident that we didn't have a single 2-digit date in the
system, nor did we depend on any libraries or system code which
did. The open-source/community nature of BSD Unix meant that
everything we relied on and trusted without inspecting personally
had been inspected by hundreds or thousands of others. The Y2K
problem had been discussed a lot and there were plenty of
procedures in place to encourage (though never ensure) that every
code-team/system had expunged any possible Y2K bugs. My SAIC
buddy talked in SLOC and had metrics up the wazoo about things
which almost exclusively did not apply (well) to our systems
as-designed and as-built. There may well have been (especially
in the Business Processing side of the house) some big risk/holes,
but I knew my system intimately and the other major/similar
systems (slightly larger development teams with more turnover)
were well in hand. <br>
</p>
<p>We (the three major systems) also had on-call responsibility and
were used to being called at 3AM if something wasn't right....
*we* had been trained by the operations staff to not leave them
hanging... they could be pretty easy-going/helpful with those of
us who answered our phones and were easy-going/helpful with them,
but the few who thought they shouldn't have to help stand up a
system they built when it fell over (or sprung a leak) at 3AM on a
holiday discovered quickly that they would not be let off easier
just because they were reluctant or pissy about the call. Bottom
line was that we (developers) knew that our systems had to run
24/7/365 and the 00:00:01 01/01/00 was just like any other day,
and if/when/as the dominoes might start to fall, it was OUR job to
be right there standing back up any of OUR dominoes that might
fall on their own or be knocked down by others. There was a
little rivalry between systems (operations as well as development)
but for the most part of someone else's system was falling down
and making a mess (creating possible/implied bugs in other
systems) we all pulled together pretty well. I don't know to
this day if my SAIC friend understood how coordinated and intimate
we all were, because he kept on predicting gloom and doom for us
as the date approached. As it was, there wasn't even much scurry
as the calendar/clocks cranked over Y2K, and I don't remember any
acute problems. We (wanted to?) believed that the ADP side of
the house had no end of problems due to their heavy dependence on
commercial systems/layers/middle-ware/vendors. As I remember it,
Y2K was pretty much a flop everywhere. <br>
</p>
<p>All this in response to "IT is Not Sustainable". I would claim
that virtually NOTHING we build is sustainable... or at least
there is a huge spectrum. Engineering can be incredibly robust
within it's design parameters, but is often incredibly fragile
when confronted with a unexpected conditions... Evolved systems
are also simultaneously fragile and robust. They are robust
within the "basins of attraction" implied by the ecosystem they
operate within but once pushed out of those robust regions they
can self-destruct quickly... I've been studying (very loosely) the
myriad examples of species extinction and habitat loss and
cascading failures (in progress and/or impending) in our
ecosystems and am appalled at how unprepared we (humans,
engineers, even scientists) are to apprehend the fragile
interconnectedness and "designed for near-optimal-conditions" we
have set up. Not precisely a house of cards, a line of dominos,
a stack of Jenga sticks, but not precisely NOT those either.</p>
<p>My recent trip to Europe/Scandinavia opened my eyes to some
things I was previously under-aware of. The evolved-engineered
systems of polder and canal and dike and hydrology in the
Netherlands is perhaps the most impressive. Realizing that they
started significantly holding back the north sea during the
"little ice age" (dikes and polders had started earlier, but this
was when they really came into their own?) helps me to appreciate
the difference between what they have done there over centuries vs
what our own Army Corps has done in less than 100... and most to
the point, the ways a whole culture can adapt to things including
their own engineering given many generations, but how we "moderns"
don't have time to adapt culturally to the changes. We DO adapt
(the talk of telephones and the earliest examples leading up to a
global wireless, multi-system-technology mesh/grid being an
example), but it isn't clear to me that our adaptation is *deep*
enough to be robust... <br>
</p>
<p>Another example in less detail is what has been come to be called
"the Nordic Secret" which is roughly the response of Scandinavia
to the enlightenment followed by the industrial revolution and
perhaps most acutely the post WWII industrial/cultural explosion
in the west. In many ways they follow the rest of the West, but
it seems they may actually know "a secret" about sustainability,
both industrially and culturally.<br>
</p>
<p>The "Endogenous Existential Threats" of our time are many/myriad
and to the point... Endogenous... self-generatated... and while
we may be taking down a lot of the biosphere-as-we-know it with
us, the biggest tragedy seems to be set to land ON us, and those
closest to us (our domisticates and the remaining large mammal
species)... though that also may simply be an anthropocentric
view. <br>
</p>
<p>As Dave's title says "IT" is not sustainable... you name the
"it" and it very likely has a lamer lifetime than you imagine (my
Y2K anecdote notwithstanding)...</p>
<p>I WILL say that despite my neo-Luddite rants, I've become more of
an Eco-Modernist of late... not necessarily wanting to trust that
we can "technology" our way out of the disasters we are creating
with our technology, but recognizing that perhaps we have little
other choice (culturally)... and that we must *try* to walk the
tightrope of using "fire to fight fire" but with (perhaps) a lot
more self-awareness than that which we used to paint ourselves
into this (mixed metaphor of a) corner.<br>
</p>
<p></ramble></p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 12/26/19 9:08 AM, Frank Wimberly
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto"><br>
<p>"CenturyLink
(NYSE: CTL) has set a goal to reduce power consumption on its
public switched telephone network by nearly 22,000
megawatt-hours a year, reducing greenhouse gas emissions as
more customers migrate to VoIP and mobile voice services.</p>
<p>Although
CenturyLink is growing its IP-based voice service, this
project is focused on consolidating more than 400,000 legacy
PSTN subscriber lines across 50 Class 5 voice switches. "</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>They're
called class 5 because of 5ESS which is the most used class 5
switch at CenturyLink.</p>
<p>Sorry,
but I had to clarify this.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Frsnk</p>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 8:43 AM
Frank Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><br>
<span style="color:rgb(60,64,67);font-family:roboto,helveticaneue,arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">June
2019) (Learn how and when to remove this template
message). 5ESS used in a mobile telephone network. The
5ESS Switching System is a Class 5 telephone electronic
switching system developed by ...</span><br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 8:36
AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Frank writes:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“This was the telephone network
in question.“</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">With the mobile carriers and
VOIP, I wonder how much of that code is still used?
I once worked for a small company that wrote
software to do billing for long distance telephone
carriers. I was amazed by the seemingly arbitrary
complexity. Complex at a policy and
inter-organizational level, not just the software.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marcus</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
on behalf of Frank Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, December 26, 2019 at
5:39 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] IT is Not
Sustainable</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">At Bell Labs we sure didn't pay
anyone by LOC. We also had code reviews and
software tools to enforce standards and very high
pay. With a brand new PhD I made more than all
but the 3 most senior members of the CS faculty at
Pitt where I was a grad student. This was the
telephone network in question. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Despite the high pay I
disliked software administration methodology.
The disagreements between the software tool
developers (version control, integration of
subsystems, compilers, etc) and the implementors
of the applications, such as call processing,
were epic. Recall that Bell Labs invented C and
Unix. After 18 months I returned to Pittsburgh
to work at Carnegie Mellon in Robotics for two
thirds the salary.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Number 5 ESS was first
deployed in March 1982, 4 years after work
began. I suspect that it didn't have 200
million lines of code then, but close to it.
Maybe Dave doesn't consider it an IT project but
many of the software tools that were developed
were included in later Unix releases, I believe.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It's going to be a beautiful
day in Santa Fe.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Frank</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 1:28 AM
Gary Schiltz <<a href="mailto:gary@naturesvisualarts.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gary@naturesvisualarts.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Spot on. </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at
2:29 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Most programmers won't
struggle to rationalize or improve code
written by other people. The problem is
that people are selfish. They think that
their 10K LOC problem is beautiful and
nimble, but that 1M LOC was once that
too. It's the behavior of teenagers.<br>
<br>
On 12/25/19, 10:47 PM, "Friam on behalf of
Russell Standish" <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>
on behalf of
<a href="mailto:lists@hpcoders.com.au" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lists@hpcoders.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
It's all about the LOC! Actually, I
kind of agree - having worked on<br>
some MegaLOC codebases that
functionally seemed to be no more complex<br>
than a 10KLOC project I'm involved in,
the 10KLOC project is much more<br>
nimble - compile times are far less,
making changes to the code easier<br>
and bugs less troublesome to winkle
out.<br>
<br>
I've also refactored or rewritten
pieces of code to slash the LOC by a<br>
factor of 3 or more for that
particular section (eg 3KLOC -> 1KLOC)
-<br>
but usually when bugs and problems
kept on cropping up in that<br>
section.<br>
<br>
Even though the LOC is an entirely
bogus measurement - if you paid a<br>
programmer by LOC, you'd get
boilerplate and crappy comments.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Dr Russell Standish
Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)<br>
Principal, High Performance Coders<br>
Visiting Senior Research Fellow
<a href="mailto:hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au</a><br>
Economics, Kingston University
<a href="http://www.hpcoders.com.au" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.hpcoders.com.au</a><br>
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<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove
</pre>
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============================================================<br>
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FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<br>
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