<div dir="auto">At Bell Labs we sure didn't pay anyone by LOC. We also had code reviews and software tools to enforce standards and very high pay. With a brand new PhD I made more than all but the 3 most senior members of the CS faculty at Pitt where I was a grad student. This was the telephone network in question.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Despite the high pay I disliked software administration methodology. The disagreements between the software tool developers (version control, integration of subsystems, compilers, etc) and the implementors of the applications, such as call processing, were epic. Recall that Bell Labs invented C and Unix. After 18 months I returned to Pittsburgh to work at Carnegie Mellon in Robotics for two thirds the salary.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Number 5 ESS was first deployed in March 1982, 4 years after work began. I suspect that it didn't have 200 million lines of code then, but close to it. Maybe Dave doesn't consider it an IT project but many of the software tools that were developed were included in later Unix releases, I believe.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It's going to be a beautiful day in Santa Fe.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">-----------------------------------<br>Frank Wimberly<br><br>My memoir:<br><a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br><br>My scientific publications:<br><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br><br>Phone (505) 670-9918</div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 1:28 AM Gary Schiltz <<a href="mailto:gary@naturesvisualarts.com">gary@naturesvisualarts.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">Spot on. </div></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 2:29 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Most programmers won't struggle to rationalize or improve code written by other people. The problem is that people are selfish. They think that their 10K LOC problem is beautiful and nimble, but that 1M LOC was once that too. It's the behavior of teenagers.<br>
<br>
On 12/25/19, 10:47 PM, "Friam on behalf of Russell Standish" <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a> on behalf of <a href="mailto:lists@hpcoders.com.au" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">lists@hpcoders.com.au</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
It's all about the LOC! Actually, I kind of agree - having worked on<br>
some MegaLOC codebases that functionally seemed to be no more complex<br>
than a 10KLOC project I'm involved in, the 10KLOC project is much more<br>
nimble - compile times are far less, making changes to the code easier<br>
and bugs less troublesome to winkle out.<br>
<br>
I've also refactored or rewritten pieces of code to slash the LOC by a<br>
factor of 3 or more for that particular section (eg 3KLOC -> 1KLOC) -<br>
but usually when bugs and problems kept on cropping up in that<br>
section.<br>
<br>
Even though the LOC is an entirely bogus measurement - if you paid a<br>
programmer by LOC, you'd get boilerplate and crappy comments.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)<br>
Principal, High Performance Coders<br>
Visiting Senior Research Fellow <a href="mailto:hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au</a><br>
Economics, Kingston University <a href="http://www.hpcoders.com.au" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.hpcoders.com.au</a><br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
============================================================<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br>
to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<br>
<br>
<br>
============================================================<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br>
to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/<br>
FRIAM-COMIC</a> <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
============================================================<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br>
to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<br>
</blockquote></div>