<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Frank -</p>
<p> I am, it's first draft is roughly what I get when I filter my
outbox. The chapters on "memoirs of sci/tech" are in the
"recipients:Friam" stream... this collection may very well also be
the primary contents of many's TL;DR folder here.<br>
</p>
<p> I would appreciate a second memoir from yourself covering the
years (and anecdotes) including running Paul Erdos out of the
Berkeley Campus Library each night and the belly of the ATT and
CMU (and???) beasts... to complement the
not-too-long-after-wild-wild-west days in NM.</p>
<p> My friend who is no more than a couple of years younger than
you who grew up in Las Vegas and Amarillo recognized a lot of
familiar "color" from your memoir. He got lucky and ended up at
MIT in the early 60s... <br>
</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/26/19 11:30 AM, Frank Wimberly
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfqS4QGTmLFRRPpKHC+tDqcR5bxL0pz-OYHbdLZ9HE4pZA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Steve,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You should write a memoir.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Frank<br>
<br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 10:42 AM
Steven A Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Frank -</p>
<p>It is fascinating to hear that you were in the "belly of
the beast" if only for a short while. I suppose we have
all been in the belly of *some* beast in our various
times.</p>
<p>My earliest years were without a telephone in the house
(camp-trailer in the woods) followed by several party
lines (shared in 2 cases amongst other USFS families in
forest-camp compounds) and understanding that the magical
rings and voices coming from the handsets in the house
were modulated (whatever that meant to a 3 year old) over
the insulated bundles of wires running from tree-to-tree
and pole-to-pole... It wasn't hard to understand the
idea that if voices could travel over single wires, that
any one of us on a party line could pick up and hear the
other's voices during a conversation or even that the
volume/static on the line would abruptly change if someone
picked up (say to listen in?). It made perfect sense
that such resources (wires on poles) were very scarce and
needed to be shared... I had heard of operator-assisted
calling which made great sense (patch panels) but the idea
that the pulses sent via the spring-loaded rotary dial
could "tell" a electromechanical switch (my father showed
me the one in the main location at the second forest camp
when I was about 5) and I remember watching/hearing a call
go through it... relays opening and closing as ring pulses
went through... <br>
</p>
<p>One of my friend's father was the local telephone lineman
and he was busy all the time either going out on trouble
calls or doing maintenance on the switches. Realizing
that in a community of roughly 300 (600 in the county at
the time!) was keeping one man busy (more than) full time
doing this was my first taste of "infrastructure". I
don't know what kind of backup he had... I never saw
anyone else working with him nor heard of anyone else
employed... though I do know sometimes there were company
trucks parked at the fenced yard next to his house...
probably for new line buildout? Another father of a
friend owned/operated the local "vending" routes which
included soda machines, candy machines and best of all
pinball machines. HIs territory must have been pretty
wide because our 300 town only had one soda/candy machine
at each of 2 gasoline stations and 3 pinball machines at
the drug/variety store. I got to see the ones in their
shop behind the house under repair opened up and really
got a kick out of trying to "trace the logic" of a
coin-drop/lever-pull, delivery-chute... and even better,
the complex logic of a pinball machine. Yet another
father drove the propane delivery truck (he had a boss who
drove some, but he was the main driver) and another who
ran the local branch of the power - coop along with his
wife. They had more trucks that came in from the next
large town (60 miles and maybe 1000 people?) to do major
repairs/upgrades, but he was out in his truck all the time
fixing/installing *something*. Several of these men ran
an ad-hoc cable network in the core of the village...
nothing came in by antenna and I guess they had their own
up on a mountain with a rebroadcast system... the
network was down as much as it was up and while *some* of
the customers had to have been paying customers, it was
these guys who somewho cooperatively kept it going. I
*knew* that someone besides these men were *designing* and
*building* the systems they maintained (thought the cable
TV thing was more DIY). </p>
<p>Many years later, we moved to a large town/small-city (2
supermarkets, a dozen motels and gas stations?) and our
neighbors at the edge of town owned the local AM radio
station... they solicited me to clean the station every
Saturday and after a few months of that I graduated to
typing up station program logs and then began to operate
the station under supervision... they were largely
"automated" which meant 4 big carousels with 4-track
endless loop (similar to 8-track) cartidges that we would
load with music, PSAs and commercials which were then
"programmed" by inserting pins in different
patch-panels... there were two modes... for example, the
system that took over on the top of hour for the network
news would inject one of a small handful of instrumental
tunes that could be faded/interrupted at-will to flip over
the newsfeed. The rest of the time, the system had a
priority stack and the commercial/PSAs stack had priority
in the sense that it wanted to play out it's queue within
the allotted time (usually one hour) no matter what...
while the music queue would simply play whenever one of
the others were not... only rarely (due to bad planning)
would a commercial or PSA go unplayed. Not every hour
was different, but there were periods (8-12AM, 1-5PM,
6-10PM) that had a particular character and there was some
variation within it. By the time I was 15 (Freshman in
HS) the station owners saw my diligence and curiosity (the
Station Engineer would take the time to explain most
everything there to me in as much detail as I had time
for) and offered me a nighttime live show which I ran for
most of my HS years. I always had the option to fire up
the automated system, as I was also trying to do my
homework during that time. I went in to the station
before 4PM to handle the 4-6 news programs (I can still
hear Paul Harvey ringing in my ears) and then the
(automated) 6-7 PM "sundown serenade" curated by the wife
but executed by me (most of the time). At 7 we rolled
into "the Night Show" which was conceived by the owners to
be something for the "youth crowd". It was nominally a
Rock show but was really Top-40 by their measure... We
had the full array of classic rock vinyl in the shelves
and I was allowed to use (most of) it but there was the
top-40 billboard charts to be serviced which meant a lot
of pop-rock and country-rock and pop-pop. <br>
</p>
<p>Yet another exposure to the complexities of "programming"
and "logic" from a somewhat different perspective. The
engineer at the time had been on the predecessor to the
NIF fusion project in Livermore (MFE?) (designing/building
the capacitor banks) and clued me in a lot of things. He
was a greasy-haired wiry little hippy that drove an old
italian convertible (very finicky with dual carbs...) and
had a penchant for visiting the bars/brothels in Mexico
(this was a border town) and probably got rolled by
someone at least once a year... and had the stories (and
scuffs) to tell about it. He taught me binary
logic/arithmetic and showed me how that related to the
somewhat similar/different discrete/analog systems behind
the carousels (all the electronics were exposed, so you
could trace wires and watch relays open/close) and even
taught me the basics of analog circuits including
soldering, relays, power amplifiers/transmitters. Later,
as I went into the all-digital world of Computer Science,
It was as if I was learning about Mammals after growing up
among only Marsupials. Of course automobiles had their
own share of analog-discrete logic with an HV (timed) side
and a 12V mostly continuous (but with switches/relays)
side. This was the 70s and the autos of interest were
mostly from the 50s/60s.<br>
</p>
<p>I went to LANL in 1981 to work on the Proton Storage Ring
which was in some ways the epitome of an anolog/digital
hybrid systems with huge subsystems being HV and HF while
others were "utility" (110/60) and yet others were TTL.
The place was "in flux" all the time... with magnetic
fields (intended and unintended) coming and going
effecting everything. It was a quite the milieu.
Moving to HPC was both a relief and a whole new world...
even though I still worked with some analog systems, they
were much less dangerous and much less high speed... the
digital stuff was lickety-split (by those days standards)
and the introduction of vector and parallel (and
eventually distributed) processing was new and
interesting. By the time I was mentoring others (90s),
the backgrounds were almost exclusively digital and most
if not all of the "kids" that came through had never even
worked on their own cars, much less vending machine or
automated tape carousel logic. </p>
<p>As Y2K approached, a consultant from SAIC was working in
my general area... we became friends... but his role and
way of thinking was incredibly foreign to me. One of his
roles (he felt like a plant from the military-industrial
into the military-scientific establishment) was to consult
on Y2K readiness. My system at the time had been
hand-built on top of UNIX (replacing a VMS system that was
falling apart every day) by a small team (3-5 of us) and
while I did not know every line of code in the system (I
had written a good portion of it), we had coding practices
and standards and code-reviews and I was roughly 99.9%
confident that we didn't have a single 2-digit date in
the system, nor did we depend on any libraries or system
code which did. The open-source/community nature of BSD
Unix meant that everything we relied on and trusted
without inspecting personally had been inspected by
hundreds or thousands of others. The Y2K problem had
been discussed a lot and there were plenty of procedures
in place to encourage (though never ensure) that every
code-team/system had expunged any possible Y2K bugs. My
SAIC buddy talked in SLOC and had metrics up the wazoo
about things which almost exclusively did not apply (well)
to our systems as-designed and as-built. There may well
have been (especially in the Business Processing side of
the house) some big risk/holes, but I knew my system
intimately and the other major/similar systems (slightly
larger development teams with more turnover) were well in
hand. <br>
</p>
<p>We (the three major systems) also had on-call
responsibility and were used to being called at 3AM if
something wasn't right.... *we* had been trained by the
operations staff to not leave them hanging... they could
be pretty easy-going/helpful with those of us who answered
our phones and were easy-going/helpful with them, but the
few who thought they shouldn't have to help stand up a
system they built when it fell over (or sprung a leak) at
3AM on a holiday discovered quickly that they would not be
let off easier just because they were reluctant or pissy
about the call. Bottom line was that we (developers)
knew that our systems had to run 24/7/365 and the 00:00:01
01/01/00 was just like any other day, and if/when/as the
dominoes might start to fall, it was OUR job to be right
there standing back up any of OUR dominoes that might fall
on their own or be knocked down by others. There was a
little rivalry between systems (operations as well as
development) but for the most part of someone else's
system was falling down and making a mess (creating
possible/implied bugs in other systems) we all pulled
together pretty well. I don't know to this day if my
SAIC friend understood how coordinated and intimate we all
were, because he kept on predicting gloom and doom for us
as the date approached. As it was, there wasn't even
much scurry as the calendar/clocks cranked over Y2K, and I
don't remember any acute problems. We (wanted to?)
believed that the ADP side of the house had no end of
problems due to their heavy dependence on commercial
systems/layers/middle-ware/vendors. As I remember it,
Y2K was pretty much a flop everywhere. <br>
</p>
<p>All this in response to "IT is Not Sustainable". I
would claim that virtually NOTHING we build is
sustainable... or at least there is a huge spectrum.
Engineering can be incredibly robust within it's design
parameters, but is often incredibly fragile when
confronted with a unexpected conditions... Evolved
systems are also simultaneously fragile and robust. They
are robust within the "basins of attraction" implied by
the ecosystem they operate within but once pushed out of
those robust regions they can self-destruct quickly...
I've been studying (very loosely) the myriad examples of
species extinction and habitat loss and cascading failures
(in progress and/or impending) in our ecosystems and am
appalled at how unprepared we (humans, engineers, even
scientists) are to apprehend the fragile
interconnectedness and "designed for
near-optimal-conditions" we have set up. Not precisely a
house of cards, a line of dominos, a stack of Jenga
sticks, but not precisely NOT those either.</p>
<p>My recent trip to Europe/Scandinavia opened my eyes to
some things I was previously under-aware of. The
evolved-engineered systems of polder and canal and dike
and hydrology in the Netherlands is perhaps the most
impressive. Realizing that they started significantly
holding back the north sea during the "little ice age"
(dikes and polders had started earlier, but this was when
they really came into their own?) helps me to appreciate
the difference between what they have done there over
centuries vs what our own Army Corps has done in less than
100... and most to the point, the ways a whole culture
can adapt to things including their own engineering given
many generations, but how we "moderns" don't have time to
adapt culturally to the changes. We DO adapt (the talk
of telephones and the earliest examples leading up to a
global wireless, multi-system-technology mesh/grid being
an example), but it isn't clear to me that our adaptation
is *deep* enough to be robust... <br>
</p>
<p>Another example in less detail is what has been come to
be called "the Nordic Secret" which is roughly the
response of Scandinavia to the enlightenment followed by
the industrial revolution and perhaps most acutely the
post WWII industrial/cultural explosion in the west. In
many ways they follow the rest of the West, but it seems
they may actually know "a secret" about sustainability,
both industrially and culturally.<br>
</p>
<p>The "Endogenous Existential Threats" of our time are
many/myriad and to the point... Endogenous...
self-generatated... and while we may be taking down a
lot of the biosphere-as-we-know it with us, the biggest
tragedy seems to be set to land ON us, and those closest
to us (our domisticates and the remaining large mammal
species)... though that also may simply be an
anthropocentric view. <br>
</p>
<p>As Dave's title says "IT" is not sustainable... you
name the "it" and it very likely has a lamer lifetime than
you imagine (my Y2K anecdote notwithstanding)...</p>
<p>I WILL say that despite my neo-Luddite rants, I've become
more of an Eco-Modernist of late... not necessarily
wanting to trust that we can "technology" our way out of
the disasters we are creating with our technology, but
recognizing that perhaps we have little other choice
(culturally)... and that we must *try* to walk the
tightrope of using "fire to fight fire" but with (perhaps)
a lot more self-awareness than that which we used to paint
ourselves into this (mixed metaphor of a) corner.<br>
</p>
<p></ramble></p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 12/26/19 9:08 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto"><br>
<p>"CenturyLink (NYSE: CTL) has set a goal to reduce
power consumption on its public switched telephone
network by nearly 22,000 megawatt-hours a year,
reducing greenhouse gas emissions as more customers
migrate to VoIP and mobile voice services.</p>
<p>Although CenturyLink is growing its IP-based voice
service, this project is focused on consolidating more
than 400,000 legacy PSTN subscriber lines across 50
Class 5 voice switches. "</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>They're called class 5 because of 5ESS which is the
most used class 5 switch at CenturyLink.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I had to clarify this.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Frsnk</p>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019,
8:43 AM Frank Wimberly <<a
href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><br>
<span
style="color:rgb(60,64,67);font-family:roboto,helveticaneue,arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">June
2019) (Learn how and when to remove this template
message). 5ESS used in a mobile telephone network.
The 5ESS Switching System is a Class 5 telephone
electronic switching system developed by ...</span><br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a
href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 26,
2019, 8:36 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Frank writes:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“This was the telephone
network in question.“</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">With the mobile carriers
and VOIP, I wonder how much of that code is
still used? I once worked for a small
company that wrote software to do billing
for long distance telephone carriers. I was
amazed by the seemingly arbitrary
complexity. Complex at a policy and
inter-organizational level, not just the
software.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marcus</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam
<<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
on behalf of Frank Wimberly <<a
href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>The Friday Morning
Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, December 26,
2019 at 5:39 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] IT is Not
Sustainable</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">At Bell Labs we sure
didn't pay anyone by LOC. We also had
code reviews and software tools to enforce
standards and very high pay. With a brand
new PhD I made more than all but the 3
most senior members of the CS faculty at
Pitt where I was a grad student. This was
the telephone network in question. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Despite the high pay
I disliked software administration
methodology. The disagreements between
the software tool developers (version
control, integration of subsystems,
compilers, etc) and the implementors of
the applications, such as call
processing, were epic. Recall that Bell
Labs invented C and Unix. After 18
months I returned to Pittsburgh to work
at Carnegie Mellon in Robotics for two
thirds the salary.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Number 5 ESS was
first deployed in March 1982, 4 years
after work began. I suspect that it
didn't have 200 million lines of code
then, but close to it. Maybe Dave
doesn't consider it an IT project but
many of the software tools that were
developed were included in later Unix
releases, I believe.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It's going to be a
beautiful day in Santa Fe.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Frank</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a
href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Dec 26, 2019,
1:28 AM Gary Schiltz <<a
href="mailto:gary@naturesvisualarts.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gary@naturesvisualarts.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Spot on. </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Dec 26,
2019 at 2:29 AM Marcus Daniels
<<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Most
programmers won't struggle to
rationalize or improve code
written by other people. The
problem is that people are
selfish. They think that their
10K LOC problem is beautiful and
nimble, but that 1M LOC was once
that too. It's the behavior of
teenagers.<br>
<br>
On 12/25/19, 10:47 PM, "Friam on
behalf of Russell Standish" <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>
on behalf of <a
href="mailto:lists@hpcoders.com.au"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">lists@hpcoders.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
It's all about the LOC!
Actually, I kind of agree - having
worked on<br>
some MegaLOC codebases that
functionally seemed to be no more
complex<br>
than a 10KLOC project I'm
involved in, the 10KLOC project is
much more<br>
nimble - compile times are far
less, making changes to the code
easier<br>
and bugs less troublesome to
winkle out.<br>
<br>
I've also refactored or
rewritten pieces of code to slash
the LOC by a<br>
factor of 3 or more for that
particular section (eg 3KLOC ->
1KLOC) -<br>
but usually when bugs and
problems kept on cropping up in
that<br>
section.<br>
<br>
Even though the LOC is an
entirely bogus measurement - if
you paid a<br>
programmer by LOC, you'd get
boilerplate and crappy comments.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Dr Russell Standish
Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)<br>
Principal, High Performance
Coders<br>
Visiting Senior Research
Fellow <a
href="mailto:hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au</a><br>
Economics, Kingston
University <a
href="http://www.hpcoders.com.au"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.hpcoders.com.au</a><br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
============================================================<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
at St. John's College<br>
to unsubscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
by Dr. Strangelove<br>
<br>
<br>
============================================================<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at
St. John's College<br>
to unsubscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/<br>
FRIAM-COMIC</a> <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
by Dr. Strangelove</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">============================================================<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St.
John's College<br>
to unsubscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
by Dr. Strangelove</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
============================================================<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's
College<br>
to unsubscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
by Dr. Strangelove<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
============================================================<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br>
to unsubscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
by Dr. Strangelove<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
archives back to 2003: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>