<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<blockquote>
<p>See the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_hypothesis">Medea
Hypothesis </a>vs the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis">Gaia
Hypothesis</a> vs the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox#It_is_the_nature_of_intelligent_life_to_destroy_others">Fermi
Paradox</a> (as another way to avoid/stall responding to the
Climate Crisis OR the Chinese Hoax, depending on your preferred
sociopolitical attractor) <tongue-in-cheek>.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/1/20 12:50 PM, Frank Wimberly
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfqCQebiR3tShtg5V7MsF631AHgTHJS5Mx-hibN8TryFcA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">This is the position that humanity is an infection
causing the Earth to suffer, right?<br>
<br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">-----------------------------------<br>
Frank Wimberly<br>
<br>
My memoir:<br>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
<br>
My scientific publications:<br>
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
<br>
Phone (505) 670-9918</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 1, 2020, 12:45 PM
Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">It
seems to me the solution is to do nothing. The world has
to become relatively toxic and inhospitable. Then people
will be unable or unwilling to reproduce, the population
will drop, and the earth can heal.
<br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_1535834935607847119divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
on behalf of doug carmichael <<a
href="mailto:doug@dougcarmichael.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">doug@dougcarmichael.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 1, 2020 12:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] climate change questions</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<p
style="margin:0px;text-indent:18px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman"">
<span>Let’s say we are able to bring the price of solar
generated electricity below that of electricity
generated by fossil fuels. This leaves several
important questions: </span></p>
<p
style="margin:0px;text-indent:18px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman";min-height:18.4px">
<span></span><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin:0px;text-indent:18px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman"">
<span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>Who pays
for replacing the gas heater with an electric heater?
That includes installation and remodeling costs as
well as the cost for the device. The energy companies
will work hard to make sure we generate that
electricity with oil and gas - and more coal than we
want to acknowledge. The number of new electric
heaters that would have to be manufactured is on the
order of 50-100 million for the US, and what of half
the world that still cooks on open fires? Such
manufacturing is going to produce more pollution and
use even more energy. It requires old technologies of
mining the minerals and producing the plastics that go
into the manufacturing these units, as well as their
transportation from mine to factory, and from the
factory to homes. </span></p>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">doug</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jan 1, 2020, at 11:26 AM,
Prof David West <<a
href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Arial">forgive me, but "it is
clear" implies that there is no other alternative. I
don't believe that because I have read myriad ways
of remediating the consequences of that use. Those
alternatives are expensive, but more expensive than
the social and economic consequences of ending
fossil fuels?<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">If the only solution is
one that will not be utilized, do we simply resign
ourselves to the inevitable?<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div>On Wed, Jan 1, 2020, at 8:16 PM, Douglass
Carmichael wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="m_1535834935607847119x_qt">
<div style="font-family:Arial">We are stuck at the
point where, to stay under 1.5 or 2, it is clear
that we must cut fossil fuel extraction and use
and there is no existing politics todo it because
it mans loss of jobs, failures of mortgages,
collapse of banks - and starvation. And this is
Implies that we must move toward powerful
centralization and decentralization at the same
time.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">doug<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jan 1, 2020, at 10:55 AM, <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
<<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:Palatino-Roman;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor">
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Friammers:<br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Let’s
constitute ourselves as the “climate
change jury”. The jury can have a
conviction but only if we all agree.
Otherwise we remain a hung jury. <span> </span><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">So,
does the Jury agree that with Dr. Kwok
of JPL that “ … sea level rise,
disappearing sea ice, melting ice sheets
and other changes are happening”?<br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">If,
so, is the jury prepared to convict
human activities for causing those
changes?<br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I
am polling the jury.<span> </span><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Nick<span> </span><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Nicholas
Thompson<br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Emeritus
Professor of Ethology and Psychology<br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Clark
University<br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:Arial"><b>From:</b><span> </span>Friam
<<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Frank
Wimberly<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Wednesday,
January 1, 2020 11:27 AM<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><b>To:</b><span> </span>The
Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
[FRIAM] climate change questions<br>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From
NASA:<br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a
href="https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/16/is-it-too-late-to-prevent-climate-change/"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/16/is-it-too-late-to-prevent-climate-change/</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 12pt"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br>
</p>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:Arial">-----------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Frank
Wimberly<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">My
memoir:<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><a
href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">My
scientific publications:<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Phone
(505) 670-9918<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On
Wed, Jan 1, 2020, 11:24 AM Frank
Wimberly <<a
href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">What
scares me is recent assertions
that we have passed the tipping
point and there is nothing we can
do about it. I have no
references.<br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 12pt"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt">Frank</span></span><br>
</p>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:Arial">-----------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Frank
Wimberly<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">My
memoir:<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><a
href="https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">My
scientific publications:<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Phone
(505) 670-9918<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On
Wed, Jan 1, 2020, 11:09 AM <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:Arial">Dave,<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">I
like these questions, and I
think The Congregation should
take them as a<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">challenge.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">What
can we-all, we who have long
association, and a generalized
(if<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">somewhat
guarded) respect, come to
agree upon with respect to
climate change<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">and
human activity? By what
process, with what attitudes,
by what rules of<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">engagement,
are we likely to arrive at ANY
truth of that matter.
Because,<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">if
we, here, cannot agree on some
matters, agreement would seem
to be beyond<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">human
reach.<span> </span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">So,
for starters, I find I am
inclined to disagree with your
facts as<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">stated.
They seem to assert that
Things (whatever Things are)
are not as<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">bad
as they were predicted to be.
Yet, I find, I am inclined to
believe<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">that
in fact Things are worse. The
only specific data I feel I
have been<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">exposed
to recently is ocean surface
rise and glacial melting. But
even<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">there,
I would be hard pressed to
match your specific references
to any of<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">my
own. So, I guess the
conclusion is, I disagree, but
I don't know what I<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">am
talking about. Ugh!<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">I
could (after some labor) cite
data to support the following
concern: what<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">we
should be watching out for,
perhaps more than long term
climate warming,<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">is
increases in year-to-year
climate variability. You can
grow rape seed in<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Canada
and maize in the US, and as
the climate alters, the bands
of climate<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">supporting
these two crops will move
north. But what happens if
one year<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">the
climate demands one crop and
the next the other? And the
switch from<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">one
to the other is entirely
unpredictable. Anybody who
plants a garden<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">knows
that only two dates have a
tremendous effect on the
productivity of<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">your
garden: first frost and last
frost. The average frost free
period in<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">my
garden in Ma 135 days or so,
but only a few miles away, it
is as short as<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">90.
And while we have never had a
90 day frost year, we have had
last frost<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">dates
in June and first frost dates
in early September. It would
take a<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">very
small year-to-year increase in
variability to turn my garden
from<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">something
that could support life for a
year in New England into a 30
x 50<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">wasteplot. <span> </span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">I
think I could show you that
the period in which we live,
the Holocene, is<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">a
period of remarkably low,
year-to-year, variation in
climate VARIABILITY.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">I
think I could convince you
that everything that has
occurred in the last<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">ten
thousand years by way of
civilization is entirely
dependent on that<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">anomalous
stability. The neanderthals
were not too stupid to do<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">agriculture;
the climate of the Pleistocene
would not permit it. The
whole<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">idea
of nation states depends on
the idea that one can make
more or less the<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">same
kind of living by staying more
or less in the same place and
doing more<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">or
less the same thing. A return
to Pleistocene year-to-year
variation<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">would
obliterate that possibility. <span> </span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">If
then, I could convince you,
that --quite apart from Global
Warming-- we<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">are
seeing an increase in climate
variability, then, by God, I
think I could<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">scare
the Living Crap out of you. <span> </span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">The
only question is whether we
have the energy and
sitzfleisch to do it,<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">and
some way to keep our
correspondence is order so
that it's value could be<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">harvested
for the long run.<span> </span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Happy
New Year!<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Nick<span> </span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Nicholas
Thompson<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Emeritus
Professor of Ethology and
Psychology<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Clark
University<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">-----Original
Message-----<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">From:
Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
On Behalf Of Prof David West<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Sent:
Wednesday, January 1, 2020
9:45 AM<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">To:<span> </span><a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Subject:
[FRIAM] climate change
questions<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Questions,
that do NOT, in any manner or
form deny the reality of
climate<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">change.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">In
1990, citing the "best
scientific models available"
stated that because<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">of
carbon dioxide emissions, the
Earth would warm by an average
of 3 degrees<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Fahrenheit
and the U.S. as the largest
producer, by an average of 6
degrees<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Fahrenheit
by 2020.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">The
UN IPCC report of the same
year predicted a range of
temperature<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">increases
ranging from 1-5 degrees F,
with the most likely
expectations<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">being
3-5 by the year 2020.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">The
current report predicts a rise
of 2-5 degrees by 2100.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">The
New York Times, CNN, and the
President of Exxon USA
predicted the end of<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">domestic
oil and gas reserves by 2020.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">The
undisputed rise in Earth (and
US) temperature as of 2020 is
1 degree.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Exactly
how does one go about
constructing a reasoned, and
accurate,<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">argument
for the need to address
climate change in the context
of badly<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">incorrect
predictions, grounded in the
best available scientific
models, and<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">over-hyped
"disaster scenarios"
promulgated by those with
political or<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">simply
"circulation" motives.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">In
light of this context of
"error" and "hype," is it fair
to tar everyone<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">expressing
questions or doubts with the
same "deny-er" brush?<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Is
it possible to constructively
criticize either the models or
the proposed<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">"solutions"
without being dismissed as a
troglodyte "deny-er?"<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Is
there a way to evaluate a
spectrum of means (eliminating
coal to carbon<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">scrubbers
to ...) along with analyses of
cost/benefit ratios, human<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">socio-economic
impact, etc. and compare them?<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Is
there more than one strategy
for getting out of this mess;
and if so, how<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">do
we decide (and/or construct a
blend) on one that will
optimize our<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">chances?<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">============================================================<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">FRIAM
Applied Complexity Group
listserv<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Meets
Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at
St. John's College to
unsubscribe<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">archives
back to 2003:<span> </span><a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span><a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span> </span>by
Dr. Strangelove<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">============================================================<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">FRIAM
Applied Complexity Group
listserv<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Meets
Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at
St. John's College<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">to
unsubscribe<span> </span><a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">archives
back to 2003:<span> </span><a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span><a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span> </span>by
Dr. Strangelove<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-family:Palatino-Roman"><span
style="font-size:18px">============================================================</span></span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-family:Palatino-Roman"><span
style="font-size:18px">FRIAM Applied
Complexity Group listserv</span></span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-family:Palatino-Roman"><span
style="font-size:18px">Meets Fridays
9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College</span></span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-family:Palatino-Roman"><span
style="font-size:18px">to unsubscribe<span> </span></span></span><a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Palatino-Roman;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-family:Palatino-Roman"><span
style="font-size:18px">archives back
to 2003:<span> </span></span></span><a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Palatino-Roman;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-family:Palatino-Roman"><span
style="font-size:18px">FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span></span></span><a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
style="color:purple;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Palatino-Roman;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span
style="font-family:Palatino-Roman"><span
style="font-size:18px"><span> </span>by
Dr. Strangelove</span></span><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>============================================================<br>
</div>
<div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
</div>
<div>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's
College<br>
</div>
<div>to unsubscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>archives back to 2003: <a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div>FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
by Dr. Strangelove<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<span>============================================================</span><br>
<span>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br>
<span>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's
College</span><br>
<span>to unsubscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a></span><br>
<span>archives back to 2003: <a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a></span><br>
<span>FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
by Dr. Strangelove</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
============================================================<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<br>
to unsubscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives back to 2003: <a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
by Dr. Strangelove<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
archives back to 2003: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>