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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>David, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I immediately got snarled up in writing you a long, turgid response, so figured I better write you a short one first, lest I never respond at all. See larding below. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>n<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West<br>Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 8:48 AM<br>To: friam@redfish.com<br>Subject: [FRIAM] question for pragmatists and Piercians among us</p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Politically charged question to follow. Unlike my usual wont, I am not trying to be provocative. I pick a difficult example for my question in the hope that it will generate enough heat to produce light with the hope that the light will illuminate clarity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Pierce said:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>"Consider what effects, <b><i>that might</i></b> conceivably have practical bearings, we conceive the object of our conception to have. Then, our conception of these effects is the whole of our conception of the object."<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>The Donald is our object<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><span style='color:black'>[NST===>] It might be argued that the whole project is ill-founded because “the Donald” is an individual, and therefore, by definition, not a general. Abduction is to generals. I think this is a cheap response, because, while The Donald is not a general in the same way “cat” is a general, it is still a lower level general. “Is it true that The Donald is over 6’ tall” is a reasonable question to ask in the same way that “how many angels….pin?” is not a reasonable question to ask. So, then, by definition, The Donald is a real </span></i></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>1- Can we enumerate the "effects with conceivably practical bearings" we expect our object to have?<b><i>[NST===>] </i></b> <b><i>Eric might help us here, but basically, I have to agree with you the Maxim is faulty at this point. It seems to me a monstrous category error. Objects are just not the sorts of things that have effects. Events have effects. Actions have effects. Thanks reminding me of this problem. I always supply words when I read the maxim, such as effects… of conceiving of the object in the way we do, as opposed to some other way. The effects under consideration are the expectations that would arise from conceiving of the object way. So, if we conceive of DT as a liar, then many effects follow from that conception, and those effects are the meaning of the conception, and it has no other meaning. <o:p></o:p></i></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText>2- Must the enumeration include both "positive" and "negative" effects?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText> 2a- does the answer to #2 depend on the definition of "our?" If 'our' is defined inclusively the answer to #2 would seem to be yes, but if 'our' is exclusive or restricted to only those with pro or anti perspectives/convictions, maybe not.<b><i>[NST===>] </i></b> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><span style='color:black'>[NST===>] well, we have to remember that the Maxim is a thesis about meaning, and so I think the maxim can be applied relatively—i.e., If [to me] a unicorn is a white horse with a narwhale horn in the middle of his forehead, then that is [to me] the meaning of unicorn. </span></i></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText>3- Must the effects we conceive have some threshold measure of a quality we might call 'truthiness', 'likelihood', 'believe-ability', reality'? [T becoming a dictator.]<b><i>[NST===>] </i></b> <b><i>The question is not about the meaning of “trump”; as a proper name, “Trump” has no meaning in that sense. The question is about the assignment of trump to the general, “dictator”, and so concerns the meaning of that general. If we were to test by observation the proposition that Trump is a dictator, what tests would we employ. These tests, according to the maxim, are the meaning of the attribution. </i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText> is a conceivable effect, but, I for one, see no possibility of that effectuating<b><i><span style='color:black'> [NST===>] I don’t think so. What “unicorn” means to me has no implications for the existence of unicorns. </span></i></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText>4- If we had a "consensus" enumeration of plausible effects does our "conception of the object" have any relation to the ontology of the object? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><span style='color:black'>[NST===>] I don’t think so. Increasing the number of people who think that “unicorn” means “a horse with a narwhale horn on his forehead” has no implications for the existence or non existence of unicorns. </span></i></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>5- If we have myriad enumerations does that mean "we" cannot possess a conception of the object, merely multiple conceptions of caricatures of the object?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I'm working on a paper with an epistemological focus and that brought me to Pierce and prompted the above questions.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Another question for the evolutionists who are also pragmatists: why pragmatism over "naturalized epistemology?"<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><span style='color:black'>[NST===>] I am not sure what a naturalized epistemology is. Evolutionary epistemology is the known that all knowledge arises through selection mechanisms. People will say, for instance, that both a bird’s wing and a jumbo jet’s constitute knowledge about flight. Well, I suppose. </span></i></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>davew<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>============================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>