<div dir="auto">That sounds like a task for statistical causal reasoning. Remember, correlation is not causation unless you use those methods.<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 9:00 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">The preprint that Barry passed along points out that there are many drugs that vulnerable people are already taking that have off-target effects, and that it could be useful to tabulate that clinical data to see if it explains recovery
rates. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> on behalf of Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 7:57 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] Choroquine-phosphate Death<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">France is pushing chloroquine hard. A FriAMer has relatives there.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Just because the first person that told people about this was an idiot does not make the information wrong.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">davew<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Barry MacKichan wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Elon Musk had a serious brush with malaria about 20 years ago, and is evidently one of the insistent sources pushing for chloroquine. Sorry, I don’t have references.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">—Barry<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On 24 Mar 2020, at 0:42, Steven A Smith wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">My first reaction to this was: THANK YOU DEAR LEADER!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><a href="https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/man-died-chloroquine-phosphate-coronavirus" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="color:#777777">https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/man-died-chloroquine-phosphate-coronavirus</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">But, I don't know if we can attribute this kind of accident to POTUS45<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">or not... my gut instinct is that his constant raving about it is what<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">triggered these people to give it a whirl.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">I have one toe in the survivalist/prepper community and they are known<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">for aquiring and stockpiling antibiotics sold for fish/aquariums. All<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">the major human antibiotics have fish equivalents FishMox and FishFlox<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">for example. There is much discussion/lore/wisdom in that community<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">around which products/sources are actually pharmaceutical-grade and<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">honest-dosage and well-regulated. I didn't know of chloroquine <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">phosphate or it's use... they are saying "cleaning" but I think they<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">mean disinfecting. It sounds to me that the problem was dosage, not<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">contamination, but the product they used may have been cut or mixed with<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">something toxic to humans.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">I've a friend who lived in Ghana for years with Peace Corps who<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">contracted malaria and was medicated with one of the chloroquine drugs. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">He understood then (25 years ago) that it was the third world's<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">"silver-bullet" and in his case it turned his symptoms around<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">(life-threatening) in hours (on an IV).... his response to this<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">prescription-from-POTUS is that the death rate in the third world could<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">spike if the first world diverts their supply (probably coming from<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">China?) abruptly for our own use. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">I also heard that patients depending on these chloroquines in the first<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">world are already finding that the supplies are drying up and many<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">cannot get their usual refills. Doh!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">============================================================<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">archives back to 2003:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">FRIAM-COMIC
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