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<p class="MsoNormal">The behavior puts in sharp relief how empty it is to “Give people hope.”
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is good in this circumstance to have people at home sobbing under their pillow.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of Steven A Smith <sasmyth@swcp.com><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 8:27 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"friam@redfish.com" <friam@redfish.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] Choroquine-phosphate Death<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/24/20 8:56 AM, Prof David West wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">France is pushing chloroquine hard. A FriAMer has relatives there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Just because the first person that told people about this was an idiot does not make the information wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p>He was far from the first, just the loudest/brashest. He *would* have us believe that he personally *discovered* this off-label use... but that IS how he rolls.. no surprises.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>There is a presumed responsibility when you have a megaphone. But that is one of the broken norms for worse (and better).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The unintended consequences of his mass-tweet/news-conference/rally announcements are sweeping. I do not believe he *intended* to cause a slam on the chloroquine supply chain, nor for self-described self-reliant folks like the AZ couple to run out and make
a small/obvious but terminal mistake.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">davew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Barry MacKichan wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Elon Musk had a serious brush with malaria about 20 years ago, and is evidently one of the insistent sources pushing for chloroquine. Sorry, I don’t have references.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">—Barry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On 24 Mar 2020, at 0:42, Steven A Smith wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">My first reaction to this was: THANK YOU DEAR LEADER!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/man-died-chloroquine-phosphate-coronavirus"><span style="color:#777777">https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/man-died-chloroquine-phosphate-coronavirus</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">But, I don't know if we can attribute this kind of accident to POTUS45<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">or not... my gut instinct is that his constant raving about it is what<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">triggered these people to give it a whirl.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I have one toe in the survivalist/prepper community and they are known<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">for aquiring and stockpiling antibiotics sold for fish/aquariums. All<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">the major human antibiotics have fish equivalents FishMox and FishFlox<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">for example. There is much discussion/lore/wisdom in that community<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">around which products/sources are actually pharmaceutical-grade and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">honest-dosage and well-regulated. I didn't know of chloroquine <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">phosphate or it's use... they are saying "cleaning" but I think they<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">mean disinfecting. It sounds to me that the problem was dosage, not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">contamination, but the product they used may have been cut or mixed with<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">something toxic to humans.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I've a friend who lived in Ghana for years with Peace Corps who<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">contracted malaria and was medicated with one of the chloroquine drugs. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">He understood then (25 years ago) that it was the third world's<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"silver-bullet" and in his case it turned his symptoms around<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(life-threatening) in hours (on an IV).... his response to this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">prescription-from-POTUS is that the death rate in the third world could<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">spike if the first world diverts their supply (probably coming from<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">China?) abruptly for our own use. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I also heard that patients depending on these chloroquines in the first<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">world are already finding that the supplies are drying up and many<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">cannot get their usual refills. Doh!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">============================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">
<span style="color:#777777">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">archives back to 2003:
<a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"><span style="color:#777777">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">
<span style="color:#777777">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">============================================================<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">
http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>============================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>to unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>archives back to 2003: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> by Dr. Strangelove<o:p></o:p></pre>
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