<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Most elder facilities do not require the huge buy in. In NM there are a large number of smaller facilities that can house up to ten people and are much less expensive. There are also larger ones that are pretty good that don’t have a buy in and charge less than 6K/month although are still out of reach for most New Mexicans.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The largest outbreak in ABQ is at La Vida Llena which has the big buy in and high monthly charge. It is generally regarded as the best facility in ABQ. It is run as a nonprofit by some the large mainstream churches. I have three friends there. The outbreak there that affected over 50 residents and staff was in the skilled nursing part of the facility and thus far has not affected independent living residents like my friends who are however under a pretty strict quarantine. I think the main point here is that wherever people put together in a small space there is grave danger. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ed<br class=""><div class="">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="">_______________________</div><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Ed Angel<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)<br class="">Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico<br class=""><br class="">1017 Sierra Pinon</div><div class="">Santa Fe, NM 87501<br class="">505-984-0136 (home)<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span> <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><a href="mailto:angel@cs.unm.edu" class="">angel@cs.unm.edu</a></div><div class="">505-453-4944 (cell) <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><a href="http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel" class="">http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel</a><br class=""></div></span></span>
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 4, 2020, at 8:25 AM, Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" class="">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class="">Frank,<br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class="">When looking for a facility for my mother, I found a lot of the 200K / 6K per month facilities, but more than 3/4 of the facilities that exist are subsidized and they simply take between 40 and 80% of the patient's social security and retirement income.<br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class="">I am pretty certain that the ones with intense outbreaks were the latter type.<br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class="">When all the shouting is over and all the data is available, I would bet a significant amount of money that the single largest comorbidity factor will be poverty / lower economic status.<br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class="">davew<br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">On Mon, May 4, 2020, at 6:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">Dave<br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Maybe I lack adequate knowledge of the variety of care centers but the ones I know charge something like $200,000 admission and $6000 per month. Maybe you mean "somewhat poor OR already warehoused..."<br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">Frank<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">---<br class=""></div><div class="">Frank C. Wimberly<br class=""></div><div class="">140 Calle Ojo Feliz,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">Santa Fe, NM 87505<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">505 670-9918<br class=""></div><div class="">Santa Fe, NM<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Mon, May 4, 2020, 5:31 AM Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" class="">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 1px; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><u class=""></u><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">The lesson might be if you are willing to lose the old people who are somewhat poor and already warehoused in overcrowded care facilities you don't have to lock down.<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On Sun, May 3, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt-m_-3419892107794976427qt" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">Sounds like the lesson is that if you're willing to lose old people you don't have to lock down. As an old person I have my doubts about that approach. In the last three days one of my highschool classmates died of covid related causes and a first cousin died of a heart attack with no known covid involvement.<br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">---<br class=""></div><div class="">Frank C. Wimberly<br class=""></div><div class="">140 Calle Ojo Feliz,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">Santa Fe, NM 87505<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">505 670-9918<br class=""></div><div class="">Santa Fe, NM<br class=""></div></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Sun, May 3, 2020, 10:55 AM Merle Lefkoff <<a href="mailto:merlelefkoff@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">merlelefkoff@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 1px; padding-left: 1ex;" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family: verdana, sans-serif;" class="">Nick, the only mainstream news program I watch is Fareed Zakaria on Sunday morning. Below is part of this morning's report. Not surprisingly (for those of us who have had the privilege recently of spending time in Sweden), the answer to how it's working, is just about like the countries that are locked down, with one exception. More deaths (mostly among the elderly who primarily live together in retirement).<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: verdana, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: verdana, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(41, 41, 41);" class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span class=""><span class="size" style="font-size: 18px;">As world governments employ different policies to fight Covid-19, Sweden’s relaxed approach stands out: Eschewing lockdowns, the country has left its schools, gyms, cafes, bars and restaurants open throughout the spread of the pandemic</span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(41, 41, 41);" class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span class=""><span class="size" style="font-size: 18px;">. Fareed interviews the man behind that strategy, </span></span></span></span></span><b style="line-height: inherit; color: rgb(41, 41, 41); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 18px;" class="">Anders Tegnell</b><span style="color: rgb(41, 41, 41);" class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span class=""><span class="size" style="font-size: 18px;">, the Swedish government’s top epidemiologist, about how it’s working and whether his country can offer any lessons to the rest of the world.</span></span></span></span></span><br class=""></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 10:34 AM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=""><div lang="EN-US" class=""><div class=""><p class="">Colleagues,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class="">I have asked this question before and nobody has responded (for clear and good reasons, no doubt) but I thought I would ask it again. What exactly is this economy we are bent on reviving? What exactly is the difference in human activity between our present state and a revived economy. We can go to bars and concerts and football games? Is that the economy we are reviving? It seems to me that the difference between a “healty” economy and our present status consists possibly in nothing more than a lot of people frantically rushing about doing things they don’t really need to do? <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class="">You recall that I invoked as a model that experiment in which 24 rats were put in a quarter acre enclosure in Baltimore and fed and watered and protected to see how the population would develop. They never got above two hundred. Infant mortality, etc., was appalling. Carnage. In the same space, a competent lab breeding organization could have kept a population of tens of thousands. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class="">Don’t yell at me. What fundamental proposition about economics do I not understand?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class="">Nick<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class="">Nicholas Thompson<u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class="">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class="">Clark University<u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u><br class=""></p><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u><br class=""></p></div></div><div class="">.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... .... . ...<br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br class=""></div><div class="">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br class=""></div><div class="">unsubscribe<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br class=""></div><div class="">archives:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM-COMIC<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.<br class=""></div><div class="">President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy<br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="http://emergentdiplomacy.org/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" 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