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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi, Dave, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So the same may be said of brains, right? Brain’s don’t behave. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Where are you going with this? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>N<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof David West<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:27 AM<br><b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Allow Nick to say "a computer behaves as if it is thinking, therefore it is thinking."<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>How does a computer behave? Or, what is a computer's behavior? I am looking at my computer - actually four of them (iPhone, tablet, laptop, and desktop) and the only behavior I see any of them exhibiting is precisely identical to the behavior of the glass paperweight that also occupies space on my desk.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>What is this thinking behavior y'all are ascribing to the computer? Am I the only one that cannot see it?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>davew<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 4, 2020, at 9:34 PM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id=qt><div><p class=qt-msonormal1>Yup. That’s what he would say. What <b><i>persuades</i></b> you that a super competent computer can’t think? Can a dog think? How would a Martian convince you that it (he, she) can think? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1>Nick<o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Wimberly<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 4, 2020 9:08 PM<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=qt-msonormal1> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=qt-msonormal1>Maybe I missed something that makes this redundant but if a highschool student asked me what the <i>hard problem</i> is I would say: There appears to be no limit to how competent computers can be. They seem to be able to do just about anything that people think requires thought. But I am persuaded that they can't think. What makes the difference between thinking people and hypercompetent computers? <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=qt-msonormal1> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=qt-msonormal1>Nick would say if it behaves as if it thinks then it thinks. I think.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=qt-msonormal1> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=qt-msonormal1>Frank<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=qt-msonormal1> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=qt-msonormal1>On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 7:50 PM Steven A Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-top-color:currentcolor;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1'><div><p class=MsoNormal>I thought this was a support group for recovering (or just<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>self-indulgent) metaphorists... you mean it's not? Why do I feel like<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'm in a scene from "Fight Club"? I guess that would make me more of<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>an allegorist?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>> Is it? You people can't help yourselves. It's compulsive. You might want to get some help for that.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>> On 5/4/20 10:47 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>>> Choosing one's rifle is so concrete. It makes me want to run out and blow away a few cacti. Oh, it's a metaphor!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... .... . ...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/<br>FRIAM-COMIC</a> <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=qt-msonormal1><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=qt-msonormal1> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=qt-msonormal1>--<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Frank Wimberly<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>140 Calle Ojo Feliz<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Santa Fe, NM 87505<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>505 670-9918<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... .... . ...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>