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p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">Came across this yesterday afternoon:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><i>"Psychology is not a science because it is too difficult. The scientific mind is usually orderly, with a natural love for order. It resents and tends to ignore fields in which order is not readily apparent. It gravitates to fields in which order is easily found such as the physical sciences, and leaves more complex fields to those who play by ear, as it were. Thus we have a rigourous science of thermodynamics but are not like to have a science of psychodynamics for many years to come."</i><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">From a Robert A. Heinlein book, <i>Sixth Column</i>, I read when I was an impressionable child. Not that he is correct, but I see where my antipathy to some science comes from. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Tue, May 5, 2020, at 5:27 AM, Prof David West wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><div style="font-family:Arial;">Allow Nick to say "a computer behaves as if it is thinking, therefore it is thinking."<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">How does a computer behave? Or, what is a computer's behavior? I am looking at my computer - actually four of them (iPhone, tablet, laptop, and desktop) and the only behavior I see any of them exhibiting is precisely identical to the behavior of the glass paperweight that also occupies space on my desk.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">What is this thinking behavior y'all are ascribing to the computer? Am I the only one that cannot see it?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Mon, May 4, 2020, at 9:34 PM, thompnickson2@gmail.com wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt-qt" style=""><div class="qt-qt-WordSection1"><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">Yup. That’s what he would say. What <b><i>persuades</i></b> you that a super competent computer can’t think? Can a dog think? How would a Martian convince you that it (he, she) can think? <br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">Nick<br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">Nicholas Thompson<br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">Clark University<br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div style="border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><br></p><div><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Wimberly<br></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 4, 2020 9:08 PM<br></div><div><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br></div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve<br></div><p><br></p></div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">Maybe I missed something that makes this redundant but if a highschool student asked me what the <i>hard problem</i> is I would say: There appears to be no limit to how competent computers can be. They seem to be able to do just about anything that people think requires thought. But I am persuaded that they can't think. What makes the difference between thinking people and hypercompetent computers? <br></p><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">Nick would say if it behaves as if it thinks then it thinks. I think.<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">Frank<br></p></div></div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 7:50 PM Steven A Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></p></div><blockquote style="border-top-color:currentcolor;border-top-style:none;border-top-width:medium;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;"><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><br></p><div>I thought this was a support group for recovering (or just<br></div><div>self-indulgent) metaphorists... you mean it's not? Why do I feel like<br></div><div>I'm in a scene from "Fight Club"? I guess that would make me more of<br></div><div>an allegorist?<br></div><div><br></div><div>> Is it? You people can't help yourselves. It's compulsive. You might want to get some help for that.<br></div><div>><br></div><div>> On 5/4/20 10:47 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br></div><div>>> Choosing one's rifle is so concrete. It makes me want to run out and blow away a few cacti. Oh, it's a metaphor!<br></div><div><br></div><div>.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... .... . ...<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>unsubscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/<br>FRIAM-COMIC</a> <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a></div><p><br></p></blockquote></div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><br></p><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal">--<br></p><div><p class="qt-qt-MsoNormal"><br></p><div>Frank Wimberly<br></div><div>140 Calle Ojo Feliz<br></div><div>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br></div><div>505 670-9918<br></div><p><br></p></div></div><div>.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... .... . ...<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<br></div><div>unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<br></div><div>archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/<br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ <br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... .... . ...<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<br></div><div>unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<br></div><div>archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/<br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ <br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>