<div dir="auto"><div>"We record/observe *all* your behavior down to the minutest level... " is impossible.<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 5, 2020, 4:13 PM Steven A Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div>On 5/5/20 3:04 PM, Frank Wimberly
wrote:<br>
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<div>Dammit, Nick. I can and frequently do spend hours
planning, remembering, composing emails, fantasizing about my
next car, etc without exhibiting any remarkable behavior
beyond eyeblinking, touching my face (don't!), crossing and
uncrossing my legs. We've been through this before but what
is my latest plan about what to do when my auto lease is up?
No one knows but me despite your claim that I don't have
private access to these kinds of things.</div>
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<p>And following (weakly I am sure) Glen's reference to
"holographically", I believe that if we record/observe *all* of
your behaviour down to the minutest detail, we can learn a LOT
about that inner state. If we had that data from the *last*
time you approached buying a new car (maybe years out) we might
recognize the specific patterns of leg-crossing and eye-blinking
and chair-leaning that go with fantasizing about that muscle-car
inspired anti-proton powered 6 wheel-drive hub-motor flying car
you have been jonesing on! <br>
</p>
<p>I'm somewhat with Glen (as I understand him in this conversation)
on the ideation that inner and outer is somewhat mutable.
Sometimes the 6-rotor flying drone-car I fantasize (and blame on
Frank) flitting around in is *part of* *me* and other times it is
what I interface *to* and *it* interfaces (mostly) to the air (and
sometimes to the water, the ground, and unfortunately a tall tree
here and there). When I am composing a message *to* this august
body named FriAM, I often think of youse alls as "external" to me,
but if I'm talking to one of the philistines in my life who do NOT
spend all their time talking/thinking about these kinds of things
(whatever these kinds are), I sometimes think of myself as being
*of* "the FriAM" rather than "in the FriAM" (or is that FriAM
pan?).</p>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:36 PM
<<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,Glen,<br>
<br>
Careful. Isn't the formulation "inner world" entirely
contradictory? <br>
<br>
N<br>
<br>
Nicholas Thompson<br>
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<br>
Clark University<br>
<a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
On Behalf Of u?l? ?<br>
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:50 PM<br>
To: FriAM <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve<br>
<br>
However, I think we can come up with a (maybe someday)
testable hypothesis based on hidden states. In principle, if
EricC's principle is taken seriously, the inner world of a
black box device will be *completely* represented on its
surface (ala the holographic principle). Any information not
exhibited by a black box's *behavior* will be lost/random. <br>
<br>
This implies something about the compressibility and
information content of the black box's behavior, right? <br>
<br>
On 5/5/20 10:38 AM, Prof David West wrote:<br>
> This does not advance an argument against the possibility
of a computer thinking \u2014 merely an assertion that "behavior"
is not a valid basis upon which to argue that they do.<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
\u2623 u\u01ddl\u0183<br>
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<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Frank Wimberly<br>
140 Calle Ojo Feliz<br>
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
505 670-9918</div>
<br>
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