<div dir="auto">I understand your point but the fact remains that that visualization was based on a numerical model that was, in turn, based on first principles. I can confirm that with Greg Foss but I'm pretty sure it's true.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Both and is better than either or. Another aphorism: whatever works.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">F<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 13, 2020, 9:53 PM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Experiment with a modern implementation of generative adversarial networks for a while and I think you’ll begin to feel less smug about the superiority of first principles – sort of like a craft of Colonial Williamsburg. Computer, just
get me the equations and spare the drama.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> on behalf of "<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:40 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] PSC Tornado Visualization (2008) [720p] - YouTube<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Old Philosophical Joke: <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Deep in a remote valley lived a tribe that had never been in contact with the modern world … except for one monastery which corresponded with Greenwich village to get the sunrise tables. The monks would get up 15 minutes early and sound
a bell, which the villagers believed was the cause of the sun rising. It was said, “The monks awakened the sun from his slumbers.” Because of this belief, offerings of every kind were left by the village on the steps of the monastery, and the monks grew
fat and happy. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the course of the annual correspondence to get the new sunrise tables from Greenwich, one of the British scientists questioned the morality of the scam the monks were running. The monks responded, “As long as they get their sunrise
on time, who cares?”<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I care. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Another old Philosophical Joke: <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A man who claimed to be able to fly, announced on his facebook page that he was going to demonstrate his skill by jumping off the top balcony of a residential tower. Psychologists were stationed at each balcony below with stop watches
and clipboards to document his behavior during his “flight”. As he went by each successive balcony he was heard to say, “So far, so good.”
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">His widow cared. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Your query, Marcus, highlights the difference between philosophical pragmatism and the vernacular kind.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Nicholas Thompson<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Clark University<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="color:#0563c1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="color:#0563c1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Marcus Daniels<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] PSC Tornado Visualization (2008) [720p] - YouTube<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick writes:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“The result looks so much like iconic tornado vids that we wannabee tornado chasers idolize that one suspects that the video was back constructed from that film, rather than developing organically from the physics.”<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Suppose the equations were extracted, or the behavior re-generated, from a deep neural net (or whatever automated machine learning thing), but nonetheless were predictive of other tornados. One might reasonably ask, “Who cares?”<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Marcus<u></u><u></u></p>
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