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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>All –<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I feel norm formation going on here, and it is making me a bit nervous. I am not sure what follows from that, but there it is. I thing that we at FriAM have long worked the boundary between work and play. I think that’s where the best work is done. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>But this is my thread, right? Can a man bust his own thread? <b><i><u>I d o n t t h I n k s o</u></i></b>. I want to talk about metaphor. And it’s relation to models. And it’ relation to the concept of intentionality. The question is, To what extent do our norms allow me to bring those concerns to other threads. And the answer I am hearing from many of you is, “Less than I have been”.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Well, I will do my best. But, for instance, I think the “work” we did on “strawman” was tremendously important. In my introductory graduate lectures at Berkeley, where, one by one, the the grey-backed gorillas of the department laid down the law. Somebody, I think David Krech, announced that if “I say that the number of rat turds left by a rat in an open field maze is “anxiety”, then that is what anxiety IS for the purposes of my research, and there’s no more discussion to be had.” And even in the tenuous position of a first year graduate student I knew that was wrong. Meanings have momentum. Words have meaning that is independent of their users. I have fought for 50 years to rescue ‘teleonomy’ (=natural design) from the dualistic thieves that abducted it. And SteveG and I could be thought of as battling for nigh a decade and half about which specification of the metaphor of natural selection is best for the purposes of understanding natural design. (I thought we made a lot of progress on that issue today.) Much of what we do in scientific discourse is fight over metaphors and we need to develop methods for fighting fairly, skillfully, and expeditiously. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I don’t think I have EVER introduced the idea of metaphor in a conversation where I didn’t think a clarification or specification of the metaphors implicit in our conversation might move the discussion forward. I may be playing with words but I am not <i>just</i> playing with words. God knows, I may have been WRONG in many cases, but I absolutely defend the idea that attention to the metaphors at play in a conversation is often essential to any development of understanding or convergence of opinion. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Is it <i>always?</i> No. Of course not. And I will try to be more careful about that. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks, as always, for all your thoughts. My life would not be half of what it is without them. Really. It’s perhaps pathetic for me to admit that, but it’s true. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nick <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Eric Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 29, 2020 9:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Metaphor [POSSIBLE DISTRACTON FROM]: privacy games<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Jon,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>No, actually not any issue with any of what you had posted, as also just affirmation toward various historical posts by Glen. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, sorry about a thread-rudeness. I had sort of dropped a chunk of something that had been accumulating for a week in the middle of your thread which was in the coarse of solving other problems, where it didn’t belong. Partly this was because yours had been the latest snapshot, partly it was because the overall frame you and Glen and Steve are building is one that I would like to think of my own additions as finding a place in, and partly I was probably using the measured tone of this sub-thread as cover, since my own was rather crabby and aggressive. Strange that it seemed formally impolite to me, to use your thread as a point of departure and not direct the salutation to you, while I blew past the fact that it was substantively rude to use the thread, rather than to participate in it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Very good. Thanks for calling me on this,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Eric<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On May 30, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Jon Zingale <<a href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'>Eric,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'>I am not sure that I disagree with you anywhere, but I am<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'>unsure whether you are taking issue with me? The proliferation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'>of threads are sometimes hard for me to follow, inevitably I mis-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'>determine who is talking to whom. Are there places in my writing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'>that you would suggest I revisit and reconsider? Pointing things<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'>out to another can be an expensive and thankless task, so thank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'>you in advance.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333'>Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>