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I think I just saw Marcus blocking 880 in Oakland!<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:874F9AB3-A77B-4DCB-91DB-143A028D2740@santafe.edu">
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Nick, for the record, and this will not change from my end:
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Your right to be interested in whatever you are
interested in is sacrosanct, here or in any other forum. I
don’t think there are thread boundaries on that, though there
are all the normal courtesies which I see more clearly for a
while after I transgress one.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Eric</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On May 30, 2020, at 1:03 PM, <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
<<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
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normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">All –<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I feel
norm formation going on here, and it is making me a
bit nervous. I am not sure what follows from that,
but there it is. I thing that we at FriAM have long
worked the boundary between work and play. I think
that’s where the best work is done. <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">But this
is my thread, right? Can a man bust his own thread? <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i
class=""><u class="">I d o n t t h I n k s o</u></i></b>.
I want to talk about metaphor. And it’s relation to
models. And it’ relation to the concept of
intentionality. The question is, To what extent do
our norms allow me to bring those concerns to other
threads. And the answer I am hearing from many of you
is, “Less than I have been”.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Well, I
will do my best. But, for instance, I think the
“work” we did on “strawman” was tremendously
important. In my introductory graduate lectures at
Berkeley, where, one by one, the the grey-backed
gorillas of the department laid down the law.
Somebody, I think David Krech, announced that if “I
say that the number of rat turds left by a rat in an
open field maze is “anxiety”, then that is what
anxiety IS for the purposes of my research, and
there’s no more discussion to be had.” And even in
the tenuous position of a first year graduate student
I knew that was wrong. Meanings have momentum.
Words have meaning that is independent of their
users. I have fought for 50 years to rescue
‘teleonomy’ (=natural design) from the dualistic
thieves that abducted it. And SteveG and I could be
thought of as battling for nigh a decade and half
about which specification of the metaphor of natural
selection is best for the purposes of understanding
natural design. (I thought we made a lot of progress
on that issue today.) Much of what we do in
scientific discourse is fight over metaphors and we
need to develop methods for fighting fairly,
skillfully, and expeditiously. <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I don’t
think I have EVER introduced the idea of metaphor in a
conversation where I didn’t think a clarification or
specification of the metaphors implicit in our
conversation might move the discussion forward. I may
be playing with words but I am not<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">just</i><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>playing with
words. God knows, I may have been WRONG in many
cases, but I absolutely defend the idea that attention
to the metaphors at play in a conversation is often
essential to any development of understanding or
convergence of opinion. <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Is it<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">always?</i>
No. Of course not. And I will try to be more careful
about that.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks, as
always, for all your thoughts. My life would not be
half of what it is without them. Really. It’s
perhaps pathetic for me to admit that, but it’s true.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Nick<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Nicholas
Thompson<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Emeritus
Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Clark
University<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225,
225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b
class="">From:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>David
Eric Smith<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday,
May 29, 2020 9:11 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The Friday
Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color:
blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[FRIAM] Metaphor [POSSIBLE DISTRACTON FROM]:
privacy games<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi Jon,<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">No,
actually not any issue with any of what you had
posted, as also just affirmation toward various
historical posts by Glen. <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Yes,
sorry about a thread-rudeness. I had sort of
dropped a chunk of something that had been
accumulating for a week in the middle of your thread
which was in the coarse of solving other problems,
where it didn’t belong. Partly this was because
yours had been the latest snapshot, partly it was
because the overall frame you and Glen and Steve are
building is one that I would like to think of my own
additions as finding a place in, and partly I was
probably using the measured tone of this sub-thread
as cover, since my own was rather crabby and
aggressive. Strange that it seemed formally
impolite to me, to use your thread as a point of
departure and not direct the salutation to you,
while I blew past the fact that it was substantively
rude to use the thread, rather than to participate
in it.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Very
good. Thanks for calling me on this,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Eric<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br
class="">
<br class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="" type="cite">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">On May 30, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Jon
Zingale <<a
href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com"
style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class="">Eric,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class="">I am not sure that I
disagree with you anywhere, but I am<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class="">unsure whether you are
taking issue with me? The proliferation<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class="">of threads are sometimes
hard for me to follow, inevitably I mis-<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class="">determine who is talking
to whom. Are there places in my writing<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class="">that you would suggest I
revisit and reconsider? Pointing things<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class="">out to another can be an
expensive and thankless task, so thank<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class="">you in advance.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,
51);" class="">Jon<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
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