<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:bcddee2f-088f-8575-31b6-7f9de8fd2d86@gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">The argument I stole from wherever wasn't that talking was a *form* of grooming, but that it *replaced* grooming. Personally, I wouldn't go that far. I'd argue that as soon as we learned to talk, talking became yet-another-sensorimotor-behavior. I.e. talking is in the same category as having sex, punching someone in the face, riding a tandem bicycle, combing lice out of your kid's hair, etc. It's all the same thing.</pre>
</blockquote>
Well corrected... thanks.
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:bcddee2f-088f-8575-31b6-7f9de8fd2d86@gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">The gripe I have with most people is they reify their "thoughts", give too much primacy to the idea of material-free interaction. Words are nothing *but* flapping gums and banged keys.</pre>
</blockquote>
I will admit that having learned to type at a very early age (by
oldSkool standards...14) there is something *like* a visceral
satisfaction in banging the keys. When I have forced myself to
write longhand (see the anecdote about a first grade teacher
breaking a ruler on the knuckles) it can *also* be viscerally
satisfying, especially when using a fountain pen on quality paper.
And yet I find "nothing more" hyperbolic.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:bcddee2f-088f-8575-31b6-7f9de8fd2d86@gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">So, to Marcus' point, talking and punching are equally manipulative. And to Nick's point, talking to oneself can be very satisfying, like shadow boxing. But fighting an *alive* opponent is always more interesting.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Touche' ! <br>
</p>
<p>What about "dancing"? My limited experience with Tae Kwon Do
peaked during sparring which with the *right* opponent/partner
felt more like Dancing than Fighting. Similarly with fencing
(foil only for me, no sabres or broadswords). Neither felt
choreographed.<br>
</p>
<p>Some of our threads here feel more like squabbling than
"dancing"... not quite a melee (usually) even though there are
some real free-for-all.<br>
</p>
<p>I re-submit my previous question of the role/value/import of "an
audience/readership" participation.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>SS> In contrast on this (now bent) thread, Marcel Duchamp
stated (authoritatively?!):</p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: 0.4px; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial;
text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline !important;
float: none;"> “All in all, the creative act is not performed
by the artist alone; the spectator brings the work in contact
with the external world by deciphering and interpreting its
inner qualifications and thus adds his contribution to the
creative act,”<span> </span></span> <br>
</p>
SS> Many creatives (visual artists, writers, and more obviously
performing artists) have agreed with this... the audience
"participation" if not "response" is key to their "completion"...
I don't know if this maps onto "closure" in CS, but maybe.</blockquote>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:bcddee2f-088f-8575-31b6-7f9de8fd2d86@gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
On 6/6/20 3:06 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Glen has suggested variously that he doesn't believe in communication, and that in humans "dialog is a form of social grooming" (I stand prepared to be corrected for mis-apprehending/stating Glen's positions).
I'm inclined to agree with him somewhat, though I DO believe some of our chatter is at least an *attempt to communicate*. So is that *all* we are doing when we blather away here? Or perhaps just Bombastic Careening (nod to Jon)? Mental Masturbation? Dominance Aggression? Random Neuromuscular Spasms?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>