<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I don’t know if this embeds within Nick’s thread, but it is a lovely bookend to Marcus’s link:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://econpapers.repec.org/article/ucpjlstud/v_3a29_3ay_3a2000_3ai_3a1_3ap_3a1-17.htm" class="">https://econpapers.repec.org/article/ucpjlstud/v_3a29_3ay_3a2000_3ai_3a1_3ap_3a1-17.htm</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Monetization of high-dimensional things, whether positive or negative, is a death knell.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Eric</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 7, 2020, at 5:00 AM, Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" class="">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="WordSection1"><div class="MsoNormal">It’s because we were ruined. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/motivation.html" class="">https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/motivation.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">From: </span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> on behalf of "<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class="">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class="">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Reply-To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" class="">friam@redfish.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Date: </b>Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 12:44 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To: </b>'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" class="">friam@redfish.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] millenarianism<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div><div class="MsoNormal">Well, as an ethologist, I should be the first at that barricade. So thanks for reminding me.
<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">Examining my own experience, I can only say that you are correct that there is direct pleasure in developing an argument, as “tactile” as the pleasure of forming Silly Putty into smooth balls or blowing bubbles with bubblegum. But that
pleasure is eliminated IMMEDIATELY and completely, if I imagine that nobody will ever read and understand what I wrote. That’s a paradox, and one I don’t entirely understand.
<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">Nick <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">Nicholas Thompson<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">Clark University<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" class=""><span style="color:#0563C1" class="">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" class=""><span style="color:#0563C1" class="">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><b class="">From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b class="">On Behalf Of
</b>Frank Wimberly<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Saturday, June 6, 2020 1:04 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" class="">friam@redfish.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] millenarianism<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">Nick,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">I wonder if communicatory behavior is rewarding in its own right just as consummatory behavior is.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">Meta:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">I don't know if "communicatory" is a word. But I wanted parallel with "consummatory".<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">---<br class="">
Frank C. Wimberly<br class="">
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br class="">
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br class="">
<br class="">
505 670-9918<br class="">
Santa Fe, NM<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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</div><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 12:54 PM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class="">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We may disagree. I think that some spaces should be safe for some purposes. The question to be discussed, on a case by case basis, is, Are the functions of a space improved or
diminished by making it “safe” in some specific way. But there’s another point, here. Assuming one is trying to convince others, not just mouthing off, when does aggressive rhetoric assist in changing minds. And if one is NOT trying to change minds, why
exactly are we talking? That’s NOT a rhetorical question.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nick<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nicholas Thompson<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Clark University<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:#0563C1" class="">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:#0563C1" class="">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b class="">From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Marcus Daniels<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Saturday, June 6, 2020 12:01 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" class="">friam@redfish.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] millenarianism<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nick writes:<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">< Surely there is SOME value, SOME times, in just trying to “get on”. ><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I don’t see why the absence of that is hostility, or even bad. I do see situations in which individuals want latitude to have any remarks they make taken as valid and kind should
be afforded the same discomfort they impose on others. I certainly am not arguing for safe spaces. Actual safe spaces are controlled by people that hold some power. Tear down that power – prevent communities -- and discussions will be safe.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Marcus<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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