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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Jochen, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Well, clearly there is a motivational dimension involved. We WANT the tin hat people to be wrong, because we are so INSANELY dependent on our cell phones. We WANT the herbal people to be right because, if they are right, then we have some margin of control over a situation that our doctors would tell us – if they were honest and articulate – is plainly out of our control. But as scientists, we are trained not to take our wants seriously, to distinguish them facts. Under what circumstances do we allow the wants/facts distinction to break down? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nick <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jochen Fromm<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 14, 2020 11:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] alternative response<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Maybe you have to be close to the "tin hat people" if you want to be extraordinary? Aristotle and Seneca allegedly said that there is no genius without a touch of madness. I guess Seneca has read Aristotle? Or he knew some tin hat people in ancient Rome. <span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>¯\_(</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic"'>ツ</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>)_/¯</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-J.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>From: <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Date: 6/14/20 18:12 (GMT+01:00) <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] alternative response<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi, Dave,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am always interested when any of our members – we who are so hard on the “tin hat people” --, departsfrom scientific orthodoxy. What determines when a scientist substitutes his own judgement for that of colleagues in other disciplines? That’s not a rhetorical question. And, having done that, why would on ever go to a doctor again? What about Linus Pauling and vitamin C? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Has anybody heard from Bruce? Did he make it across? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Nick<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof David West<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 14, 2020 7:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [FRIAM] alternative response<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>My time in Amsterdam put me dead center in the Vegan / Vegetarian / Herbal / Alternative Medicine community, with whom I still correspond. I received this book and a strong recommendation from them. Most of the people in that community are following the ideas in the book and claim high effectiveness.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I have a deep respect for acupuncture and Ayurveda and similar traditions, but am highly skeptical of the "new age" stuff. Nevertheless, in case someone is curious/interested.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Herbal Antivirals: Natural Remedies for Emerging & Resistant Viral Infections</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Take control of your health and learn how to use herbs safely and effectively to prevent and fight off a wide range of viral infections, including coronaviruses, SARS, influenza, encephalitis, dengue fever, and more. Expert herbalist Stephen Harrod Buhner offers this exhaustive guide to understanding the antiviral properties of dozens of herbs, backed up by the most recent research studies and findings. In addition to in-depth profiles of the herbs, Buhner provides complete, step-by-step instructions for obtaining high-quality herbs and preparing and using customized herbal formulations for strengthening the immune system and addressing each virus. Discover how these natural remedies can help keep you and your family healthy and strong.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>davew</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>