<div><div dir="auto">If I understand correctly, random in the statistical sense, is just a distribution. Random, in the colloquial sense, does not exist. All state is all determined by physical laws. That’s of course without regard to quantum mechanics. But my beliefs about such things were forged before quantum theory had been invented, or at least before I had heard of it. It does now temper my beliefs with a healthy dose of uncertainty. </div></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 9:16 PM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_3602844491223193944WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Hi, Gary, <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">So, am I right to guess that wearing that hat implies a position on the meaning of the word, “random”? How does that go? <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_3602844491223193944WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Nick <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Nicholas Thompson<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Clark University<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563c1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563c1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Gary Schiltz<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 16, 2020 5:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] alternative response<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Putting on my determinist hat (which I usually wear), I would say that the event of the neighbor passing by your study <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">was pre-determined by the forces established at the instant of the Big Bang. As is everything else.<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 4:59 PM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal">Is the question whether it was "pre-determined?" Or is the question whether<br>it was predetermined by Charles?? I have a neighbor who passes my study<br>window every afternoon at 4pm with his very floppy cocker spaniel. Is that<br>event predetermined by the dog (who begs to go out at 3.30), by Scott (who<br>welcomes the distraction), by the clock (which he checks to keep the dog<br>honest), or ....<br><br>I know this because I used to set out for coffee every afternoon at that<br>time, and we would often meet on my doorstep and walk together a few paces<br>down the street. Because of COVID I don't do that any more. Did COVID<br>determine my change of behavior? Or did I make a FREE choice. <br><br>I think the freedom of free will is just an ideological matter. Each of us<br>is supposed to be a master of our behavior and circumstances. Indeed, in<br>some jurisdictions, you can be popped in the loony-bin for not being so. In<br>which case, I think, the loony bin is where we all belong. Or perhaps are? <br><br>Anyway, Glen will accuse me of strawmanning again. Forgive me. I have been<br>tortured by dualists all my life, and now I am visiting my revengte on all<br>of you. <br><br>Nick <br><br><br><br>Nicholas Thompson<br>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<br>Clark University<br><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><br><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of Jon Zingale<br>Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 3:38 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] alternative response<br><br>An attempt to steelman via wingman:<br><br>The idea that Glen is proposing is to highlight a sweet spot in one's<br>experience where unfamiliarity competes with habit. Glen advocates for<br>bracketing questions of a prime mover or that which happens in pathological<br>limits. Instead, he wishes to constrain the scope of free will to a question<br>of free versus bound with respect to some arbitrary<br>component/scale/neighborhood (the free will zone). I will try not to fight<br>this as I still think of this interpretation of *free will* as being a<br>discussion of will, determined or not. For instance, I may be willful and<br>determined.<br>The value<br>I see in Glen's perspective is that we can develop a grammar for discussing<br>deliberate action, perhaps involving a Bayesian update rule to an otherwise<br>evaporative memory or local foresight. He is advocating to not concern<br>ourselves with whether or not Charles Bukowski was *predestined* to be a<br>drunk, but rather with determining where the *choice* to do otherwise may<br>have been.<br><br><br><br>--<br>Sent from: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br><br>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a> un/subscribe<br><a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <br><br><br>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>
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