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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Oh, come on frank. I am sure you knew that before. N<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Wimberly<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 16, 2020 4:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] alternative response<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Well, this conversation has changed my opinion of you, Nick. Now I think of you as a sloppy housekeeper.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 3:59 PM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>Is the question whether it was "pre-determined?" Or is the question whether<br>it was predetermined by Charles?? I have a neighbor who passes my study<br>window every afternoon at 4pm with his very floppy cocker spaniel. Is that<br>event predetermined by the dog (who begs to go out at 3.30), by Scott (who<br>welcomes the distraction), by the clock (which he checks to keep the dog<br>honest), or ....<br><br>I know this because I used to set out for coffee every afternoon at that<br>time, and we would often meet on my doorstep and walk together a few paces<br>down the street. Because of COVID I don't do that any more. Did COVID<br>determine my change of behavior? Or did I make a FREE choice. <br><br>I think the freedom of free will is just an ideological matter. Each of us<br>is supposed to be a master of our behavior and circumstances. Indeed, in<br>some jurisdictions, you can be popped in the loony-bin for not being so. In<br>which case, I think, the loony bin is where we all belong. Or perhaps are? <br><br>Anyway, Glen will accuse me of strawmanning again. Forgive me. I have been<br>tortured by dualists all my life, and now I am visiting my revengte on all<br>of you. <br><br>Nick <br><br><br><br>Nicholas Thompson<br>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<br>Clark University<br><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><br><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of Jon Zingale<br>Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 3:38 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] alternative response<br><br>An attempt to steelman via wingman:<br><br>The idea that Glen is proposing is to highlight a sweet spot in one's<br>experience where unfamiliarity competes with habit. Glen advocates for<br>bracketing questions of a prime mover or that which happens in pathological<br>limits. Instead, he wishes to constrain the scope of free will to a question<br>of free versus bound with respect to some arbitrary<br>component/scale/neighborhood (the free will zone). I will try not to fight<br>this as I still think of this interpretation of *free will* as being a<br>discussion of will, determined or not. For instance, I may be willful and<br>determined.<br>The value<br>I see in Glen's perspective is that we can develop a grammar for discussing<br>deliberate action, perhaps involving a Bayesian update rule to an otherwise<br>evaporative memory or local foresight. He is advocating to not concern<br>ourselves with whether or not Charles Bukowski was *predestined* to be a<br>drunk, but rather with determining where the *choice* to do otherwise may<br>have been.<br><br><br><br>--<br>Sent from: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br><br>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a> un/subscribe<br><a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <br><br><br>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>