<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Dear Nick.  Please oh please keep trying!</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 12:41 AM David Eric Smith <<a href="mailto:desmith@santafe.edu">desmith@santafe.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Hi Nick,<div><br></div><div>No, I don’t think vinegar will stay on the gloves.  Acetic acid is a volatile, so it just evaporates away.  </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Eric</div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jun 24, 2020, at 12:32 PM, <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Eric and all,<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks for taking it seriously.  Do we know anyone who could comment on the notion further.  Would cotton gloves washed in vinegar be anti viral when dried?<span> </span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Nick<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Nicholas Thompson<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Clark University<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,T2u83HZcB_9JRsqa2qQG32Tn_GDuJoi6oIaVns4PThlwN3Y7HlWs3_O6bQlGm_bT75xhd8Fq_TvOJdOFiRjwLcgM6-xHNYl9XNbSpD0p3uVOb2EFi7PihHY,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b>From:</b><span> </span>Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>David Eric Smith<br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Tuesday, June 23, 2020 6:32 PM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [FRIAM] End most covid transmission?<u></u><u></u></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Nick and all, hi,<u></u><u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">This will be completely un-useful and un-actionable to anybody, but the way you phrased your question is interesting anyway.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">When there was a push to develop fuel cells with polymer membranes, to get away from platinum-palladium catalysts, one of the problems was that they needed a membrane that would be proton-donating (so, functioning as an acid by the Bronsted definition).  There was a heavy raft of work for perhaps a decade (maybe much longer) on polymer materials that have very acidic side-chains.  I don’t know how anything like that behaves if it is out under air, rather than in a fluid environment.  But if viruses are not dry, and are hosted in small droplets for a time, perhaps that distinction is less relevant.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">In any case, considering that the glove industry is probably entirely predicated on reducing unit cost, and that I have no idea what the elasticity may be of fuel cell membrane polymers, they probably will not be glove material anytime soon.  I haven’t even looked at that literature for, what, maybe 15 years (?).  So I have no idea what the state of development is now.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Eric. <u></u><u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br><br><u></u><u></u></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite"><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On Jun 23, 2020, at 3:38 AM, <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Any materials experts out there?<span> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Ok, so.  We know that most covid transmission is hand to face and we know that the virus is highly vulnerable to acids and some other substances.  Is it not possible to design gloves (and perhaps masks) with those substances embedded?  How about cloth gloves dunked in vinegar and hung out to dry before wearing?  Is vinegar still acid when it’s dry? <span> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Yeah.  I know.  Dumb.  But somebody explain to me why.<span> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">N<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Nicholas Thompson<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Clark University<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,DnCQCju3LlcaIz2RXB86met0nEvzrwCqntB-fUz7K8afNZkkhGimHCv2oCdsmqaXXgXbky5yEVwjjjk2BjVaoT-QcCdDGD78wZnsurUaTcxV&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,5cGBw7MLtPZKuidWBv8nqNfuqkyait0ylWX4uJrdjkaT7w-8WWppzfizbLHWm3-1cju3h_8GB6HX3I17EiA_d_36asWgFrpMTVlaxLzYoVpDnv_lcA,,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">bit.ly/virtualfriam</span></a><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><br>un/subscribe<span> </span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,23TPC7fzfS-4FZKvlq3jlMdbvJDtpCp8r57j6ITxgFknVOJONhp_ZczbLtu4iuq6v0lQGqkkyZWyu_2vq8nP1HQw3mC49MVCdXoqHxuGdTyXVQ8Q90hhGg,,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,23TPC7fzfS-4FZKvlq3jlMdbvJDtpCp8r57j6ITxgFknVOJONhp_ZczbLtu4iuq6v0lQGqkkyZWyu_2vq8nP1HQw3mC49MVCdXoqHxuGdTyXVQ8Q90hhGg,,&typo=1</span></a><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><br>archives:<span> </span></span><a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><br>FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,CH64x6gerfiCWMaCmUTsuzdqw1damUwPIlEPUxAWrEGAS-lDXM5Jh11L24zw0XoQDoJx4lvkKCzBlPvdtEEuhdBLBaVAAuGaIuHbo6kUdasu4A,,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,CH64x6gerfiCWMaCmUTsuzdqw1damUwPIlEPUxAWrEGAS-lDXM5Jh11L24zw0XoQDoJx4lvkKCzBlPvdtEEuhdBLBaVAAuGaIuHbo6kUdasu4A,,&typo=1</span></a><u></u><u></u></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  </span><a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">un/subscribe<span> </span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,18hu5zd0KuwxyuB47p2XQc-GD_BxtJA9mu6M9OwywLkYRk25qmjXrk_YCFddZ5bxCamGzOIUjFIZqOCgsibDzyEFh1eKRxJxRuyxWYgzxMkW&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,18hu5zd0KuwxyuB47p2XQc-GD_BxtJA9mu6M9OwywLkYRk25qmjXrk_YCFddZ5bxCamGzOIUjFIZqOCgsibDzyEFh1eKRxJxRuyxWYgzxMkW&typo=1</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">archives:<span> </span></span><a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,b4vlZtDuN3d34jk0j6a7ApTcHp_TmajORKKYLqHlSErqPDW-cy50FwcXx1U4BEG39ev0ydCYxjkqkn_IFE1oalmznjKphQgMh509xTATdEg01coW9IpjX_OJc4Y,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,b4vlZtDuN3d34jk0j6a7ApTcHp_TmajORKKYLqHlSErqPDW-cy50FwcXx1U4BEG39ev0ydCYxjkqkn_IFE1oalmznjKphQgMh509xTATdEg01coW9IpjX_OJc4Y,&typo=1</a><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline"></span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <br>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.<br>President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy<br><a href="http://emergentdiplomacy.org" target="_blank">emergentdiplomacy.org</a></div><div>Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA</div><div></div><div><a href="mailto:merlelefoff@gmail.com" target="_blank">merlelefkoff@gmail.com</a><br>mobile:  (303) 859-5609<br>skype:  merle.lelfkoff2<br></div><div>twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>