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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi, russ,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for that careful reading. There is no greater kindness than to take the time to read colleague’s work. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I will think carefully about what you say. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nick <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jochen Fromm<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 28, 2020 3:08 AM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] God<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nick your article reminds of Elizabeth Culotta. She says in her Science article that anthropomorphism is a natural property of humans that contributed to the rise of religions. She quotes Oxford University psychologist Justin Barrett who argues that "Humans have a tendency to see signs of agents—minds like our own—at work in the world" and Yale University psychologist Paul Bloom who says "We have a tremendous capacity to imbue even inanimate things with beliefs, desires, emotions, and consciousness,... and this is at the core of many religious beliefs".<br><br>Elizabeth Culotta, On the Origin of Religion, Science (2009) Vol. 326, Issue 5954, 784-787<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-J.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>From: Russell Standish <<a href="mailto:lists@hpcoders.com.au">lists@hpcoders.com.au</a>> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Date: 6/28/20 10:12 (GMT+01:00) <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] God <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Nick - finally took a look at your paper. I didn't read it to the nth detail, but from what I understand, your scepticism about "ejective anthropmorphism" (nice term by the way) stands on two legs:<br><br>1) What exactly is priveleged about introspection?<br><br>2) That the process of ejective anthropomorphism starts from an<br>identity between the target behaviour and the observers behaviour,<br>which is structy false. The example being given of a dog scratching at<br>a door to get in.<br><br>In response, I would say there is plenty of privelege in<br>introspection. For example, proprioception is entirely priveleged -<br>that information is simply now available to external observers.<br><br>In terms of the identity of target and observer behaviour, it doesn't<br>need to be identical, but it does need to be analogical. The most<br>important application of this skill is prediction of what other human<br>beings do. People aren't the same, but they are similar - and human<br>society functions because we can predict to some extent what other<br>people are likely to do. I believe this is why self-awareness evoved<br>in the first place. Something similar may have evolved in dogs, which<br>are social pack animals. We have also evolved the ability to "put<br>ourselves in somebody else's skin", taking into account the obvious<br>external differences. So we can imagine being a dog, and wanting to<br>get through a door, what would we do. We know we cannot stand up, and<br>turn the door knob, because we don't have hands, so what would we do,<br>given we only have paws. Scratching behaviour does seem a likely<br>behaviour then. That, then is analogical.<br><br>So, I'm not exactly convinced :).<br><br>Cheers<br><br>On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 04:32:05PM -0600, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>> Sorry Russ. It was in a hyperlink: <br>> <br>> <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311349078_The_many_perils_of_ejecti">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311349078_The_many_perils_of_ejecti</a><br>> ve_anthropomorphism<br>> <br>> Nicholas Thompson<br>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<br>> Clark University<br>> <a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br>> <a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of Russell Standish<br>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 4:27 PM<br>> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] God<br>> <br>> On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 09:59:37PM -0600, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>> > Hi Russ,<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Hawking my wares again. I am sorry but SOMEBODY has to read this <br>> > crap. The argument of this paper is that the flow of inference is <br>> > actually in the other direction. We model our view of ourselves on our<br>> experience with others.<br>> > <br>> <br>> What paper? What argument?<br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> <br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)<br>> Principal, High Performance Coders <a href="mailto:hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au">hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au</a><br>> <a href="http://www.hpcoders.com.au">http://www.hpcoders.com.au</a><br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> <br>> -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ...<br>> ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...<br>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe<br>> <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <br>> <br>> <br>> -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...<br>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<br>> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <br><br>-- <br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)<br>Principal, High Performance Coders <a href="mailto:hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au">hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au</a><br> <a href="http://www.hpcoders.com.au">http://www.hpcoders.com.au</a><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<br>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>