<div dir="auto">Russ,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Your views on these matters are very similar to my own.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank<br><div dir="auto"><br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 2:11 AM Russell Standish <<a href="mailto:lists@hpcoders.com.au">lists@hpcoders.com.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Nick - finally took a look at your paper. I didn't read it to the nth detail, but from what I understand, your scepticism about "ejective anthropmorphism" (nice term by the way) stands on two legs:<br>
<br>
1) What exactly is priveleged about introspection?<br>
<br>
2) That the process of ejective anthropomorphism starts from an<br>
identity between the target behaviour and the observers behaviour,<br>
which is structy false. The example being given of a dog scratching at<br>
a door to get in.<br>
<br>
In response, I would say there is plenty of privelege in<br>
introspection. For example, proprioception is entirely priveleged -<br>
that information is simply now available to external observers.<br>
<br>
In terms of the identity of target and observer behaviour, it doesn't<br>
need to be identical, but it does need to be analogical. The most<br>
important application of this skill is prediction of what other human<br>
beings do. People aren't the same, but they are similar - and human<br>
society functions because we can predict to some extent what other<br>
people are likely to do. I believe this is why self-awareness evoved<br>
in the first place. Something similar may have evolved in dogs, which<br>
are social pack animals. We have also evolved the ability to "put<br>
ourselves in somebody else's skin", taking into account the obvious<br>
external differences. So we can imagine being a dog, and wanting to<br>
get through a door, what would we do. We know we cannot stand up, and<br>
turn the door knob, because we don't have hands, so what would we do,<br>
given we only have paws. Scratching behaviour does seem a likely<br>
behaviour then. That, then is analogical.<br>
<br>
So, I'm not exactly convinced :).<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 04:32:05PM -0600, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
> Sorry Russ. It was in a hyperlink: <br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311349078_The_many_perils_of_ejecti" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311349078_The_many_perils_of_ejecti</a><br>
> ve_anthropomorphism<br>
> <br>
> Nicholas Thompson<br>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<br>
> Clark University<br>
> <a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br>
> <a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of Russell Standish<br>
> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 4:27 PM<br>
> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] God<br>
> <br>
> On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 09:59:37PM -0600, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
> > Hi Russ,<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > Hawking my wares again. I am sorry but SOMEBODY has to read this <br>
> > crap. The argument of this paper is that the flow of inference is <br>
> > actually in the other direction. We model our view of ourselves on our<br>
> experience with others.<br>
> > <br>
> <br>
> What paper? What argument?<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> <br>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)<br>
> Principal, High Performance Coders <a href="mailto:hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">hpcoder@hpcoders.com.au</a><br>
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