<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">There is ambiguity about what the self means and includes. There is a selfish self, a little self that is contained with us its own bubble and there is the big self that includes the world and all of its connections. As Ortega says I am I and my circumstances<br><br><div dir="ltr">doug</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jul 3, 2020, at 12:24 PM, thompnickson2@gmail.com wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">\ufeff<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, Dave,<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">What is the self-interest that is being served in such a system. What is the entity that \u201chas\u201d the interest. <o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Or am I trapping myself in some stupid loop, here. <o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">n<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof David West<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 3, 2020 1:19 PM<br><b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] detritus from vFRIAM<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">People write software that self-modifies, learns to shape current actions based on the results of prior actions, clones itself in order to maximize its share of some limited resource (memory or processor cycles) vis-a-vis competing software.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">This kind of software, once created and deployed, is entirely autonomous. Creators might send messages asking the software to execute a particular behavior, but such messages have no special status, they are just another part of the context to which the software responds. The field is called "evolutionary software."<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To me, this is an example of a system, that once deployed, is autonomous and acting on its own behalf. It is not aware of any "goals of the whole" only its own will to "thrive."<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Not sure if this satisfied your request.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">davew<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, at 1:06 PM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" id="qt"><div><p class="qt-msonormal1">I tried to post this on the vFRIAM chat, but wouldn\u2019t \u201ctake\u201d, so I am posting it here:<o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-quotation1">\u201cDon't do this now, but \u2026. as a favor to me, could you-guys devote some of your shaving time this week to the proposition: "No system ever acts on its own behalf." My intuition is that whenever we investigate a system that appears to act in its own behalf, we will find that it is pursuing a goal that is short of the interest of the whole, but which will produce benefits to the whole because of some property of the world in which it acts. I would love to hear a discussion among people trying to design <u>a system that acts on its own behalf</u>. Can someone come up with a simple example of such a system.\u201d <o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1">I grant you that the question is not clear.<o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1">Nick<o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1">Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1">Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><span>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .</span><br><span>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br><span>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam</span><br><span>un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span><br><span>archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span><br><span>FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ </span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>