<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">There is a lyric - "Mr. Purple People Eater whats your line? Its eating purple people, and it sure is fine." Resolves the ambiguity.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, at 6:09 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><div dir="auto"><div>Brief responses, Dave.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">When I first heard that song in 195? I wondered whether the eater or the people were purple. Maybe everyone did.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I like your fair-minded rhetoric. For example, "offers little" rather than "offers nothing".<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I prefer pure math but I don't disdain applied math. My dissertation was about finite element methods, a numerical analysis approach used in structural analysis, fluid mechanics, etc.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Is logical positivism a subfield of analytic philosophy? I used to know.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As an anthroplogist you might appreciate this book about ethnic identity in New Mexico:<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:sans-serif;"><span class="size" style="font-size:12.8px;">Nación Genízara: Ethnogenesis, Place, and Identity in New Mexico (Querencias Series) </span></span></span><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0826361072/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_MpdnFbBG2K8TF" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(66, 133, 244);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;">https://www.amazon.com/dp/0826361072/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_MpdnFbBG2K8TF</a><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div>Frank<br></div><div><br></div><div dir="auto"><div>---<br></div><div>Frank C. Wimberly<br></div><div>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br></div><div>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br></div><div><br></div><div>505 670-9918<br></div><div>Santa Fe, NM<br></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 3:34 AM glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">gepropella@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div>Excellent! This is the kind of skepticism I was incapable of formulating by myself. Thanks! I hope to revisit the paper now.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> On August 12, 2020 12:55:02 PM PDT, Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>> wrote:<br></div><div> >I promised to read and comment, so here goes.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >I really dislike (detest) this kind of analytic epistemology (analytic<br></div><div> >philosophy in general) as it contributes nothing to my understanding of<br></div><div> >how things are — how people think, why people have certain beliefs, how<br></div><div> >people judge something to be "true."<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >Given Glen's commitment to Vico-ism, I am surprised he finds the<br></div><div> >article compelling in some way.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >Some questions:<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >1- Does Carter know anything? I.e. is there an example of a bit of<br></div><div> >knowledge that came to be in his possession via the K-AB framework? He<br></div><div> >certainly does not provide one, even as an illustrative example. <br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >2- Assuming that the K=AB framework is useful. How many 'trials' are<br></div><div> >required to constitute "aptness?" For a belief to transform to<br></div><div> >knowledge must it be the case that all trials were apt, most of the<br></div><div> >trials, a super majority of the trials?<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >3- Can the K=AB framework yield an integrated body of knowledge, or<br></div><div> >merely the occasional isolated knowledge factoid?<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >4- Does a belief and or a bit of knowledge need to be expressed in<br></div><div> >words? If so, exactly how does the K=AB framework resolve the inherent<br></div><div> >ambiguity of language?<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >4b- For example: I believe I encountered and am having a discussion<br></div><div> >with a One-eyed One Horned Flying Purple People Eater. I apply the<br></div><div> >framework aptly and I now I know I am talking with one. What I do not<br></div><div> >know, however apt my belief, is whether or not the creature is purple<br></div><div> >or the people it eats are purple. At minimum the framework yields<br></div><div> >incomplete and ambiguous knowledge. ("I like short shorts.")<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >5- Glen 'knows' Trump is an evil idiot. Can Glen lead me along the<br></div><div> >apt-path that resulted in that knowledge? Could Carter?<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >6- Re: collective knowledge. Is a collective a 'Thing'? Can that Thing<br></div><div> >embody/contain/possess knowledge? (or belief?)<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >7. Clearly, groups appear to share collective knowledge and belief - at<br></div><div> >least at a statistical level. It is even possible to observe what<br></div><div> >appears to be collective knowledge that does not exist, per se, in any<br></div><div> >of the members of the group — the Delphi technique would be one<br></div><div> >example. (Emergent knowledge from a complex system?)<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >As a cognitive anthropologist, I am constantly challenged by the<br></div><div> >problem of explaining how culture — apparently shared collective<br></div><div> >knowledge, behavior, and ability — comes into existence, maintains<br></div><div> >itself, evolves, and adapts to changing contexts, including encounters<br></div><div> >with other cultures.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> >Formalisms, like those espoused by Carter, are so far removed from<br></div><div> >concrete reality they offer little in the way of guidance or<br></div><div> >assistance. And advocates of those formalisms seldom have any interest<br></div><div> >in applied work any more than advocates of "pure" mathematics tend to<br></div><div> >denigrate applied math.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> -- <br></div><div> glen<br></div><div> <br></div><div> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/<br> FRIAM-COMIC</a> <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> </div></blockquote></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>