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Dave -<br>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;">Trump has problems with Mormons in
general. </div>
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And they with him? Best I can tell he has problems with everybody
but himself and maybe Ivanka.<br>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;">Romney's antipathy to trump
epitomizes the "Mormon on the street."<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
I find Romney hard to identify as a "man on the street" (or more to
the point "backroad"). I grew up among salt-of-the-earth Mormons
who looked to their own business of taking care of their families
and communities. He doesn't look or act (to me) a bit like any of
them. Jeff Flake (of Snow-Flake AZ history) does a little better,
but *both* of them remind me a bit too much of the variants I
discovered as an adult when I entered (sub)communities where there
were<br>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;">Nevertheless, Idaho, Utah, Nevada,
Eastern Oregon, Western Montana, and Western Colorado where you
will find large if not majority Mormon populations will vote
decisively Republican.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Note, I said Republican, not
Trump.<br>
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<p>The blatant tolerance (enabling) of Trump in the Republican
party, the myriad elected Republican politicians, and uncountable
self-identified Republican individuals says absolutely nothing
good about "loyal Republicans". Even Conservatism(tm) is overdue
for an overhaul. And I would love to see the same for
Liberal/Progressives but for less acutely damning reasons. <br>
</p>
<p>As indicated elsewhere, I'm contemplating the implications of
Republicans re:Democratic-Republic and of Democrats
(more-direct-in-principle?) and wonder if you see that being the
distinguishing line, or if it is more about Conservative V.
Liberal/Progressive? I wonder how your own lexicon presents on
these names?<br>
</p>
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cite="mid:a86dd7c1-e2d6-42a4-bffe-020b4711226e@www.fastmail.com">
<div style="font-family:Arial;">If you would like a long treatise
on why this is the case, I would be happy to send directly and
not inflict on rest of list. </div>
</blockquote>
<p>But of course. I suspect I inflict way too much here in
general... but everyone *does* have a <delete> button/key.</p>
<p><delete!><br>
</p>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;">One key, but likely surprising to
"outsiders," element is a very self conscious separation of
church and state (with one or two exceptions like gay marriage)
among both the populace and the church leadership.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>The Mormons I grew up amongst were very humble and kept their
eyes/minds/hands focused on taking care of their own families and
communities with a modest, positive, fair connection with the
non-Mormon communities/population. My sister had two classmates
(out of 20ish) who were Mormon, I had no classmates thus. Those
families had no significant involvement in politics in those
areas, but when scratched, they were rather proud (IMO) of their
"cousins" heavy hitting in the politics of the areas (White Mtns
of AZ, St David AZ, etc.) where they were the dominant
culture/group. To hear them tell it (though it may have been my
projection) the natural progression in the church hierarchy was
often reflected in a climb in local politics. On one hand that
seems really easy/obvious, on the other I don't know how it
squares with your description here? <br>
</p>
<p>I dated the eldest daughter (second child) in a Mormon family in
HS and we kept a (not-quite-exclusive) long-distance relationship
through our first year of college (me Flagstaff, she Provo) and
got a strong, albeit cynical, view of both a small but significant
subcommunity distant from the mother-ship, and then the heart of
the mother-ship (BYU and the SLC Temple). She had no end of
problems with the LDS church (mostly based on the behaviour of her
father, uncles, and many other adult men of the church, and their
wives for turning a blind eye to their hypocrisies and abuses). I
talked her into taking me to service (once) which she had been
refusing (attendance) since about age 14 and her mother talked me
into joining them for their Family Home Evening twice (she held an
open invitation, but I worked most evenings and was uncomfortable
around her father who apparently was ONLY home for that one
evening). I took most of her "stuff" on these topics as
less-than-fair-but-not-entirely-baseless.<br>
</p>
<p>This was about the time that the issue of black members (very
rare in my area) not being allowed to serve as Patrol Leaders in
LDS Boy Scout programs as an extension to the whole Mark of Cain
thing which was overturned by "revalation" in 1978. I don't know
if the BSA/LDS intersection is in any way a fair parallel with
LDS/UT or LDS/USA, but if it is, it did not look good... the LDS
church got very much into the BSA business in those days. Later
when I encountered communities where the LDS church was NOT a
minority... it felt/looked to me like they got up in *all* the
business around them, personal, commercial, and political. And I
found my take on that to be a LOT less critical than the average
"gentile" ("philistine"?) living in those communities.</p>
<p>It doesn't surprise (or offend) me that the LDS church leans far
Right/Conservative/Republican... but allowing Trump to infiltrate
and co-opt their party is hard for me to resolve against all but
the worst caricatures of what I once knew the Mormon/LDS heritage
to be about. I am glad Romney could stand up (a day late and a
dollar short) to Trump a little and Jeff Flake could at least
"back out of the room" when he realized that Trump "owned" his
party. But if (when) the regions you describe as primarily LDS
(and I concur) re-affirm their confidence-in/approval-of Trump in
November, it does significant damage to my opinion of what I once
knew as a thoughtful, grounded, moral (if oftentimes flawed)
population, up to many issues I disagree with them on. It makes
them look like "tools" of the most ridiculous "Tool" of all
time. But then it seems like we are a "Nation of Tools" these
days... virtually everyone in my family of origin voted Trump
2016 for reasons that were out of reach to me... most are now
pretending that "they never really liked/trusted him"... go
figure.<br>
</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I applaud your decision to work at a
convenience/fuel-stop in these times. I often imagine I really
need to push myself into a similar position, at least for a
while. I also very much appreciate your participation and style
in this group which is somewhat fundamentally counter-aligned with
many of your positions... I doubt you are the only
counter-progressive-cultural element here, but one of the few who
make many waves.<br>
</p>
<p>grumble,</p>
<p> - Steve<br>
</p>
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