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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi, Steve, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Well, I hate people who hate. Hating something, particularly any category as broad as “religious people”, is like putting your own eyes out and blaming the darkness. I hate myself when I hate. But I think the hatred described here is mostly rhetorical. There is a way of talking on FRIAM that involves using hyperbole with a wink, and, given that 80 percent of Americans are more or less religious, I think this is an example. It’s almost equivalent to saying, “I hate people,” which I can complete understand, but wouldn’t admit to out loud. Actually, I don’t think there are a lot of haters in this group. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>‘<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I think we are at our best as a group when we talk about things we (1) care about, (2) on which we have some [expert?} experience to bring to bear, and on which our minds are at least slightly ajar. I do wish complexity would rear its ugly head more often in our discussions, but I would guess we have drifted away from it both in caring and in knowledge, so, if we tried to get a discussion going, it would be like burping up last night’s <i>Famiglia Cribari. </i><b><i><u>µ</u></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nick<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>µ For those of you who are under 80, Famiglia Cribari was the graduate student wine of choice in the 60’s. You bought it in jugs. If you brought a whole jug to a pot luck, you were forgiven for not bringing any food. </b><b><o:p></o:p></b></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></b></div><p class=MsoNormal>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Guerin<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 24, 2020 12:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Cc:</b> Owen Densmore <owen@backspaces.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] why some people hate cops<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>Marcus writes:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal> I guess the only thing I hate more than cops are religious people. <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>As a list admin, this might be flaggable. I'm not sure if expressing hatred of a protected class of people in of itself is hate speech- it seems to be at least up to the line. Ie, replace with "The two groups I hate more than cops are gays and black people" - would I have a responsibility to intercede?<br><br>As I consider the impotence of this group to take political action and incite political violence I consider the statement low to zero risk. I will take no action as a list admin. Intellectually, I would like to know where the line of hate speech is.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Now, as a fellow list member and religious person, I find your hate an opportunity for discussion and exploration. I would estimate your emotion is held by at least a rough majority of list members. <br><br>The Science / Religion schism, I think it is one of the great divides in our political situation and may signify a phase transition in our culture as we stretch for new metaphors in scientific and spiritual understanding. The 2000-year old metaphors are certainly getting long in the tooth. Similarly, many on this list feel the 60-year-old scientific metaphors around fundamental questions of intelligence and living systems are in the process of updating and exploration. I suspect there will be opportunities for synthesis.<br><br> Perhaps Merle would like to facilitate a virtualFriam on the topic. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-Stephen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________________________________<br><a href="mailto:stephen.guerin@simtable.com" target="_blank">Stephen.Guerin@Simtable.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>CEO, Simtable <a href="http://www.simtable.com/" target="_blank">http://www.simtable.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>office: (505)995-0206 <span style='font-size:9.5pt'>mobile: (505)577-5828</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>twitter: @simtable</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'><a href="http://zoom.com/j/5055775828" target="_blank">zoom.com/j/5055775828</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>