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Stephen wrote:<br>
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<div>I also saw it as an opportunity freeze it in the
spotlight to be studied. There is a hatred and disdain of
religion by many in the "scientific" community. I find it
misplaced and hope this dialectic tension between the
religious and scientific may soon resolve in a modern
synthesis of Science and Religion.</div>
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<p>I fall down in trying to interpret most if not all of the
language of the Anthropomorphised "Higher Power", and even the
"Higher Power" talk evokes in me the myriad extant very human
failed ways of ordering and understanding society.</p>
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<div>Marcus, consider the following from Max Planck:</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote"><span
style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><b>"Both
religion and science require a belief in God. For
believers, God is in the beginning, and for physicists
He is at the end of all considerations… To the former He
is the foundation, to the latter, the crown of the
edifice of every generalized world view.</b></span></div>
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<p>It doesn't surprise me that the Grand Old Men of Science from as
early as the Enlightenment but more notably the Fathers of Modern
Physics would be steeped in, and not (openly?) questioning the
metaphorical target domain of a patriarchal Heaven over Earth. I
was not raised with much of that, though it was in the water (more
like flouride than selenium) so I am neither acutely reactive to
it, but neither can I find traction to use it as a starting
point. As for me, I have to decode the anthropomorphisms into
something much more neutral (risking losing important nuance)
before I can re-encode it into something relevant for myself.</p>
<p>I DO find it a very interesting, even fundamental question... but
possibly too general to make useful without further refinement.<b><br>
</b></p>
<p>My own preferred reference embedding is closer to the greek
Cosmos, Logos, Chaos, Mythos... but that may fall dead on many as
well.</p>
<p>- Steve<b><br>
</b></p>
<p>PS. I probably won't make vFriam but I do think the in-person,
verbal mode, works well/differently for many, so I look forward to
some tangential motion through the convening of "the Mother
Church" to use Nick's idiom.<b><br>
</b></p>
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<div><span
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<div><font face="sans-serif" color="#202122"><span
style="font-size:14px">As the father of Action in
quantum physics, can you glimpse where he might be
pointing with "every generalized world view"? Even if
you can't follow him, could you tolerate those that do?
Here's more context for the above i from Planck's <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Planck#Religious_views"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Wikipedia</a>.
Please give it some reflection - it's only 7 paragraphs
:-)</span></font><br>
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<div>Planck was a member of the Lutheran Church in
Germany.[36] He was very tolerant towards alternative
views and religions.[37] In a lecture in 1937 entitled
"Religion und Naturwissenschaft" (Religion and Natural
Science) he suggested the importance of these symbols and
rituals related directly with a believer's ability to
worship God, but that one must be mindful that the symbols
provide an imperfect illustration of divinity. He
criticized atheism for being focused on the derision of
such symbols, while at the same time warned of the
over-estimation of the importance of such symbols by
believers.[38]</div>
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<div>Planck was tolerant and favorable to all religions.
Although he remained in the Lutheran Church, he did not
promote Christian or Biblical views. He believed "the
faith in miracles must yield, step by step, before the
steady and firm advance of the facts of science, and its
total defeat is undoubtedly a matter of time." [39]</div>
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<div>In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft",
Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present,
and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead
is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he
thought, attach too much importance to what are merely
symbols. He was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death,
and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God
(though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and
religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and
dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the
goal "toward God!"[39]</div>
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<div>Planck said in 1944, "As a man who has devoted his
whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study
of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about
atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter
originates and exists only by virtue of a force which
brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this
most minute solar system of the atom together. We must
assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and
intelligent spirit (orig. geist). This spirit is the
matrix of all matter."[40]</div>
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<div>Planck regarded the scientist as a man of imagination
and Christian faith. He said: "Both religion and science
require a belief in God. For believers, God is in the
beginning, and for physicists He is at the end of all
considerations… To the former He is the foundation, to the
latter, the crown of the edifice of every generalized
world view".[41]</div>
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<div>On the other hand, Planck wrote, "...'to believe' means
'to recognize as a truth,' and the knowledge of nature,
continually advancing on incontestably safe tracks, has
made it utterly impossible for a person possessing some
training in natural science to recognize as founded on
truth the many reports of extraordinary occurrences
contradicting the laws of nature, of miracles which are
still commonly regarded as essential supports and
confirmations of religious doctrines, and which formerly
used to be accepted as facts pure and simple, without
doubt or criticism. The belief in miracles must retreat
step by step before relentlessly and reliably progressing
science and we cannot doubt that sooner or later it must
vanish completely."[42]</div>
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<div>Later in life, Planck's views on God were that of a
deist.[43] For example, six months before his death a
rumour started that he had converted to Catholicism, but
when questioned what had brought him to make this step, he
declared that, although he had always been deeply
religious, he did not believe "in a personal God, let
alone a Christian God".[44]</div>
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