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<p>Carl -</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Acknowledged. The
foreground/background thing is always tricky. I don't mean to
attribute any reality to "personal freedoms", yet somehow "not
being an ass" is something *like* respecting others "personal
freedoms", even though such are in some sense an illusion.
Perhaps someone can articulate this better than I have?</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">- Steve<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFi2r0jAVgjCa=D6fU3fYW=Emm2kXfHCbMwvv6iQ6m6qsf9Q=A@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Steve,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You assume I have some fealty to the notion of "personal
freedoms". Perhaps that is unwarranted. I just see no
reason to be an ass.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>>>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do
think I know, you are clearly *very* independent and *very*
considerate of others and their personal freedoms. That
sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18
AM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> Carl Tollander wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">-9,-8.1
<div>But I do think it would depend a bit on the day.</div>
<div>Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term
"Libertarian" for themselves. My experience with the
*L*ibertarian self-identified is they seem to lean toward
a virulent extremist willingness to *assert their will* on
others under the guise of protecting *their will from
subversion* . When I was younger (more juiced on the
hormones and rhetoric and appeal of competition?) I was
more seduced by some of that. Now it just makes me feel
systemically ill.</p>
<p>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I
know, you are clearly *very* independent and *very*
considerate of others and their personal freedoms. That
sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.<br>
</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020
at 8:48 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is another aspect of
staying behind which puts more weight on
maintaining local (e.g. family and childhood)
relationships. I don’t think this inclination
is overtly authoritarian. However, a strong
desire to maintain a social fabric could lead to
policing mechanisms for them, and that brings in
(say) the church. When a social network is more
important than having any sort of purpose, weird
things happen. Wired has an article on some
crazies up in Forks, Washington that is worth a
skim. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Eric Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Political
compass teest</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So this is metastasizing now,
and there have been other decades when it wasn’t
such a problem, or at least not as overt.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is that due to demographic
sorting? In more prosperous (or even just
earlier) times, enough people stayed near
where they were born that cultures got some
mix of preferences, and you didn’t have whole
regions “submitting too much to the
authorities in their lives”. But when those
who wanted out could get out, and did so
systematically, the ones who stayed behind
could create a tailored paradise for the
preferences that had caused them to stay
behind?</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Oct 12, 2020, at
10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow <<a
href="mailto:rec@elf.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rec@elf.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/</a></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- rec --</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Oct 11,
2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in
0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There’s a
page on the 2020 election where
they claim, among other strange
things, that Warren is a
right-leaning authoritarian.
If that is true, which I doubt,
it says to me politicians are
mirroring the electorate in a
very obscure way. And I am
pretty sure I am not far to the
left of Bernie Sanders. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid
rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in
0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen
Guerin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October
10, 2020 8:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning
Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM]
Political compass teest</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">ec=-5.75
& soc=-6.3</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat,
Oct 10, 2020, 9:18 PM <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt
4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m
more of a libertarian
than Dave is? Something
MUST be wrong, here. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nicholas
Thompson</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Emeritus
Professor of Ethology
and Psychology</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Clark
University</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid
rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof
David West<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Saturday, October
10, 2020 6:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[FRIAM] Political
compass teest</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Econ left/right: -0.88</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Social Lib/Auth: -6.1</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">davew</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">NOT a Libertarian</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Sat, Oct 10, 2020, at
5:56 PM, <a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"
id="gmail-m_-6791402764200805358gmail-m_7765795420829808861gmail-m_-8682206521367141913m_-6349746993548423742qt">
<div>
<p>Do we all agree at
an insanely high
level? Then wtf
have we been arguing
about all these
years. Let’s wait
until Glen and Dave
take the test before
we bury all our
hatchets.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>n</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Nicholas Thompson</p>
<p>Emeritus Professor
of Ethology and
Psychology</p>
<p>Clark University</p>
<p><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a></p>
<p><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,jI9pg2_C34oOCpyabOwNVYM7KJGCPx7H3EupAcE2q9TK2V75UO7IrMX_UOS1TIZ0puSAcbRFu09JGz8yK4gzt6DIJCqNtiA3EEOMsqYT64DoqXJS7TM,&typo=1"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<div
style="border-top:1pt
solid
rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt
0in
0in;border-right:currentcolor;border-bottom:currentcolor;border-left:currentcolor">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of
</b>Gary Schiltz</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>Sent:</b>
Saturday,
October 10, 2020
5:29 PM</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>To:</b>
The Friday
Morning Applied
Complexity
Coffee Group
<<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [FRIAM]
Political
compass teest</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p>I was pretty much
dead center in the
lower left
quadrant, which
was surprising to
me. I would have
thought I would be
in the middle of
the whole graph.</p>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Sat, Oct 10,
2020 at 4:52 PM
George Duncan
<<a
href="mailto:gtduncan@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gtduncan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-left:1pt
solid
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0in 0in
6pt;margin:5pt 0in
5pt
4.8pt;border-top:currentcolor;border-right:currentcolor;border-bottom:currentcolor">
<div>
<div>
<p><span><span
style="font-size:18pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Jon, I took it. I'm
barely left on
economics and
strongly
libertarian on
social issues</span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span><span
style="font-size:18pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p>George
Duncan</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Emeritus
Professor of
Statistics,
Carnegie
Mellon
University</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fgeorgeduncanart.com%2f&c=E,1,7A1nvLLwvbARh5EsbrcBP_x1ncqDWHW84o2ARPieWFtHxbGsgklMKBqeuNgbEd_czryT4FTxDDbM2mCDHXdJbmd_5-i0Yf4oVpAGGN27uHZ8&typo=1"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">georgeduncanart.com</a></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>See posts
on Facebook,
Twitter, and
Instagram</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Land: (505)
983-6895 </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Mobile:
(505) 469-4671</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">My
art theme:
Dynamic
exposition of
the tension
between matrix
order and
luminous
chaos.</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:-0.25pt">"Attempt
what is not
certain.
Certainty may
or may not
come later. It
may then be a
valuable
delusion."</span></span></p>
<div>
<p><span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:-0.25pt">From
"Notes to
myself on
beginning a
painting" by
Richard
Diebenkorn. </span></span></p>
</div>
<table
style="width:85%;border-collapse:collapse"
width="85%"
cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="padding:0.75pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:9pt;text-align:center" align="center"> <span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(93,86,81)">"It's
that
knife-edge of
uncertainty
where we come
alive to our
truest power."
Joanna Macy.</span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td
style="padding:0.75pt"
valign="top"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p><span
style="color:white"> </span></p>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Sat, Oct
10, 2020 at
3:22 PM jon
zingale <<a
href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-left:1pt
solid
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0in 0in
6pt;margin:5pt
0in 5pt
4.8pt;border-top:currentcolor;border-right:currentcolor;border-bottom:currentcolor">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">I
just took the
political
compass test
and surprise
surprise, I am
a</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">left-libertarian.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Take
the test here
if you are
interested:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.politicalcompass.org%2ftest&c=E,1,e8hAuyhPdtiZ876M9sd6OmWzNeLJXSYR8MHrODvh3vN2g_nLrK21RY_5OBeUJlK4p0Rzh08Ymx64c4LiIgp7JiIDXXzqbbqx3zHFw_W8CPvxLq3_SnjwgA,,&typo=1"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.politicalcompass.org/test</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><<a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png</a>>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">--</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Sent
from: <a
href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a></p>
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listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a
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.<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a
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<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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</pre>
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<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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archives: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
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</pre>
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