<div dir="auto">I would have thought libertarian thought would be more aligned with anarchism than with authoritarianism. </div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 11:18 AM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Carl Tollander wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">-9,-8.1
<div>But I do think it would depend a bit on the day.</div>
<div>Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term
"Libertarian" for themselves. My experience with the
*L*ibertarian self-identified is they seem to lean toward a
virulent extremist willingness to *assert their will* on others
under the guise of protecting *their will from subversion* .
When I was younger (more juiced on the hormones and rhetoric and
appeal of competition?) I was more seduced by some of that. Now
it just makes me feel systemically ill.</p>
<p>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you
are clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others
and their personal freedoms. That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to
me FWIW.<br>
</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48
AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is another aspect of staying
behind which puts more weight on maintaining local (e.g.
family and childhood) relationships. I don’t think
this inclination is overtly authoritarian. However, a
strong desire to maintain a social fabric could lead to
policing mechanisms for them, and that brings in (say)
the church. When a social network is more important
than having any sort of purpose, weird things happen.
Wired has an article on some crazies up in Forks,
Washington that is worth a skim. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of
</b>David Eric Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So this is metastasizing now, and
there have been other decades when it wasn’t such a
problem, or at least not as overt.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is that due to demographic
sorting? In more prosperous (or even just earlier)
times, enough people stayed near where they were born
that cultures got some mix of preferences, and you
didn’t have whole regions “submitting too much to the
authorities in their lives”. But when those who
wanted out could get out, and did so systematically,
the ones who stayed behind could create a tailored
paradise for the preferences that had caused them to
stay behind?</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM,
Roger Critchlow <<a href="mailto:rec@elf.org" target="_blank">rec@elf.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/" target="_blank">https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/</a></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- rec --</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at
12:27 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There’s a page on the
2020 election where they claim, among
other strange things, that Warren is a
right-leaning authoritarian. If that
is true, which I doubt, it says to me
politicians are mirroring the electorate
in a very obscure way. And I am pretty
sure I am not far to the left of Bernie
Sanders.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Guerin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 10,
2020 8:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Political
compass teest</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">ec=-5.75 &
soc=-6.3</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Oct 10,
2020, 9:18 PM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m more of a
libertarian than Dave is?
Something MUST be wrong, here.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nicholas
Thompson</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Emeritus
Professor of Ethology and
Psychology</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Clark
University</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof
David West<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday,
October 10, 2020 6:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM]
Political compass teest</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Econ
left/right: -0.88</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Social
Lib/Auth: -6.1</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">davew</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">NOT
a Libertarian</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Oct
10, 2020, at 5:56 PM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" id="m_-2239974789335208331gmail-m_7765795420829808861gmail-m_-8682206521367141913m_-6349746993548423742qt">
<div>
<p>Do
we all agree at an insanely
high level? Then wtf have
we been arguing about all
these years. Let’s wait
until Glen and Dave take the
test before we bury all our
hatchets.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>n</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Nicholas
Thompson</p>
<p>Emeritus
Professor of Ethology and
Psychology</p>
<p>Clark
University</p>
<p><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a></p>
<p><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,jI9pg2_C34oOCpyabOwNVYM7KJGCPx7H3EupAcE2q9TK2V75UO7IrMX_UOS1TIZ0puSAcbRFu09JGz8yK4gzt6DIJCqNtiA3EEOMsqYT64DoqXJS7TM,&typo=1" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<div style="border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-right:currentcolor;border-bottom:currentcolor;border-left:currentcolor">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gary
Schiltz</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Sent:</b>
Saturday, October 10,
2020 5:29 PM</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>To:</b>
The Friday Morning
Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [FRIAM] Political
compass teest</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p>I
was pretty much dead
center in the lower left
quadrant, which was
surprising to me. I would
have thought I would be in
the middle of the whole
graph.</p>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On
Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at
4:52 PM George Duncan
<<a href="mailto:gtduncan@gmail.com" target="_blank">gtduncan@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-top:currentcolor;border-right:currentcolor;border-bottom:currentcolor">
<div>
<div>
<p><span><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Jon, I took it. I'm
barely left on
economics and
strongly
libertarian on
social issues</span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p>George
Duncan</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Emeritus
Professor of
Statistics,
Carnegie
Mellon
University</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fgeorgeduncanart.com%2f&c=E,1,7A1nvLLwvbARh5EsbrcBP_x1ncqDWHW84o2ARPieWFtHxbGsgklMKBqeuNgbEd_czryT4FTxDDbM2mCDHXdJbmd_5-i0Yf4oVpAGGN27uHZ8&typo=1" target="_blank">georgeduncanart.com</a></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>See
posts on
Facebook,
Twitter, and
Instagram</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Land:
(505) 983-6895
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Mobile:
(505) 469-4671</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My
art theme:
Dynamic
exposition of
the tension
between matrix
order and
luminous
chaos.</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:-0.25pt">"Attempt
what is not
certain.
Certainty may
or may not
come later. It
may then be a
valuable
delusion."</span></span></p>
<div>
<p><span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:-0.25pt">From
"Notes to
myself on
beginning a
painting" by
Richard
Diebenkorn. </span></span></p>
</div>
<table style="width:85%;border-collapse:collapse" width="85%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:9pt;text-align:center" align="center">
<span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(93,86,81)">"It's
that
knife-edge of
uncertainty
where we come
alive to our
truest power."
Joanna Macy.</span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt" valign="top"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style="color:white"> </span></p>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On
Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at
3:22 PM jon zingale
<<a href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com" target="_blank">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-top:currentcolor;border-right:currentcolor;border-bottom:currentcolor">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I
just took the
political compass
test and surprise
surprise, I am a</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">left-libertarian.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Take
the test here if
you are
interested:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.politicalcompass.org%2ftest&c=E,1,e8hAuyhPdtiZ876M9sd6OmWzNeLJXSYR8MHrODvh3vN2g_nLrK21RY_5OBeUJlK4p0Rzh08Ymx64c4LiIgp7JiIDXXzqbbqx3zHFw_W8CPvxLq3_SnjwgA,,&typo=1" target="_blank">https://www.politicalcompass.org/test</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><<a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png</a>>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">--</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent
from:
<a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-
.... . -..-. . -.
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<pre>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
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</pre>
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