<div dir="ltr">Great question! Busy week, tho. We might look at related kanji (my favorite is the kanji characters for gate and ma), the system of radicals, and various systems for transliteration (romaji, Hepburn, etc) and different systems for pronouncing the same kanji, and how all those interlace. <div><br></div><div>It is quite the rabbit hole. Consider:</div><div><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%96%80#Japanese">https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%96%80#Japanese</a></div><div>and</div><div><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%96%93">https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%96%93</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>The last question is even better and I will have some thoughts there later, but as I say, busy week.</div><div><br></div><div>C</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>We obviously have at least two Japanophiles here...<br>
</p>
<p>My (very limited) familiarity with Chinese Logographic written
language and the inherited/derived Japanese Kanji I was struck by
how intrinsic the metaphorical nature of Ideograms are.
Pictograms are more "visually onomatapoeic" which is (more than) a
nod to the perceptual grounding of language. It seems that
Logographic writing mixes Pictographic, Ideographic and even Rebus
(phonetic loan words) as-needed, with what seems like a natural
drift toward phonographic language/syllabaries (e.g. Katakana).
Of course, having metaphor-derangement-syndrome, I find metaphor
everywhere and even more to the point of my own idiosyncratic
perspective, the stacking or composition of metaphors evidenced in
ideogrammatic compounds and the broad use of radicals to
combine/modify/nuance ideograms.</p>
<p>I'd be curious if either of you (anyone really) has more insight
into the way these written languages maintain the vestiges of
their own evolution/development and hints for how people who use
these languages might structure their thought similarly or
differently to those who use entirely phonographic writing (all of
the modern West?)</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<div>On 10/13/20 8:42 AM, Prof David West
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Arial">Carl,<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Mentioning art and translation
made me think of this book<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><i><a rel="nofollow" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=P14rAH8xU9EC&printsec=frontcover" target="_blank">The Chinese Written Character as a
Medium for Poetry</a></i>, composed by the Ernest Fenollosa,
edited by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound" title="Ezra Pound" target="_blank">Ezra Pound</a> after
the author's death, 1918.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">I frequently refer to it when
confronting issues of cognition and language and culture; and as
insight into why Whorf was right and why he was wrong.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">You might enjoy it. <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div>On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Carl Tollander wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="gmail-m_-5017609386105918395qt">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dave,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks, not there yet. Somewhere between Zen and
Shinto, anyhows. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The test is a mirror, in the sense that it proposed a lot
of photons in short order that I would not normally
consider, which brought some opportunity for
self-reflection. A bunch of "gee, that's odd" moments.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sort of like studying Japanese grammar might give some
insights about the English language and the nature of
translation. One of the works that disabused me of western
notions of Japanese "traditional" arts was Edith Grossman's
"Why Translation Matters". (note -- she doesn't talk about
Japan at all) Respect as engagement rather than obeisance.
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>C<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at
9:02 PM Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" target="_blank">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Carl is very Japanese and
master of Drum Zen.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div>On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 8:50 PM, Steve Smith wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="gmail-m_-5017609386105918395qt-gmail-m_4602590993636776526qt">
<p>Carl -<br>
</p>
<div>Acknowledged. The foreground/background thing is
always tricky. I don't mean to attribute any reality
to "personal freedoms", yet somehow "not being an ass"
is something *like* respecting others "personal
freedoms", even though such are in some sense an
illusion. Perhaps someone can articulate this better
than I have?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Steve<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Steve, <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You assume I have some fealty to the notion of
"personal freedoms". Perhaps that is
unwarranted. I just see no reason to be an ass.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border-color:currentcolor;border-style:none;border-width:medium;padding:0px">
<div>>>I don't know you well Carl, but from
what I do think I know, you are clearly *very*
independent and *very* considerate of others and
their personal freedoms. That sounds pretty
*l*ibertarian to me FWIW.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18 AM
Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Carl Tollander wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>-9,-8.1 <br>
</div>
<div>But I do think it would depend a bit on
the day.<br>
</div>
<div>Oddly, never thought of myself as a
libertarian.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I think some pretty strong *Fascists*
co-opted the term "Libertarian" for
themselves. My experience with the
*L*ibertarian self-identified is they seem to
lean toward a virulent extremist willingness
to *assert their will* on others under the
guise of protecting *their will from
subversion* . When I was younger (more
juiced on the hormones and rhetoric and appeal
of competition?) I was more seduced by some of
that. Now it just makes me feel systemically
ill.<br>
</p>
<p>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I
do think I know, you are clearly *very*
independent and *very* considerate of others
and their personal freedoms. That sounds
pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.<br>
</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48
AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p>There is another aspect of staying
behind which puts more weight on
maintaining local (e.g. family and
childhood) relationships. I don’t
think this inclination is overtly
authoritarian. However, a strong
desire to maintain a social fabric
could lead to policing mechanisms
for them, and that brings in (say)
the church. When a social network
is more important than having any
sort of purpose, weird things
happen. Wired has an article on
some crazies up in Forks, Washington
that is worth a skim. <br>
</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p><br>
</p>
<div><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Eric
Smith<br>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October
12, 2020 7:35 AM<br>
</div>
<div><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning
Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM]
Political compass teest<br>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<p>So this is metastasizing now, and
there have been other decades when
it wasn’t such a problem, or at
least not as overt.<br>
</p>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Is that due to demographic
sorting? In more prosperous (or
even just earlier) times, enough
people stayed near where they were
born that cultures got some mix of
preferences, and you didn’t have
whole regions “submitting too much
to the authorities in their
lives”. But when those who wanted
out could get out, and did so
systematically, the ones who
stayed behind could create a
tailored paradise for the
preferences that had caused them
to stay behind?<br>
</p>
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p>On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19
AM, Roger Critchlow <<a href="mailto:rec@elf.org" target="_blank">rec@elf.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</p>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/" target="_blank">https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/</a><br>
</p>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>-- rec --<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at
12:27 AM Marcus Daniels
<<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p>There’s a page on
the 2020 election
where they claim,
among other strange
things, that Warren
is a right-leaning
authoritarian. If
that is true, which
I doubt, it says to
me politicians are
mirroring the
electorate in a very
obscure way. And I
am pretty sure I am
not far to the left
of Bernie Sanders. <br>
</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p><br>
</p>
<div><b>From:</b>
Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Stephen
Guerin<br>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b>
Saturday, October
10, 2020 8:39 PM<br>
</div>
<div><b>To:</b> The
Friday Morning
Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [FRIAM]
Political compass
teest<br>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<p>ec=-5.75 &
soc=-6.3<br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Sat, Oct 10,
2020, 9:18 PM
<<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p>I’m more of
a libertarian
than Dave is?
Something MUST
be wrong,
here.<br>
</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<p>Nicholas
Thompson<br>
</p>
<p>Emeritus
Professor of
Ethology and
Psychology<br>
</p>
<p>Clark
University<br>
</p>
<p><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br>
</p>
<p><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br>
</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p><br>
</p>
<div><b>From:</b>
Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf
Of </b>Prof
David West<br>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b>
Saturday,
October 10,
2020 6:39 PM<br>
</div>
<div><b>To:</b>
<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [FRIAM]
Political
compass teest<br>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<p><span><span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Econ
left/right:
-0.88</span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span><span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Social
Lib/Auth:
-6.1</span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span><span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span><span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">davew</span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span><span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">NOT
a Libertarian</span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span><span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>On Sat, Oct
10, 2020, at
5:56 PM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" id="gmail-m_-5017609386105918395qt-gmail-m_4602590993636776526qt-gmail-m_-6791402764200805358gmail-m_7765795420829808861gmail-m_-8682206521367141913m_-6349746993548423742qt">
<div>
<p>Do we all
agree at an
insanely high
level? Then
wtf have we
been arguing
about all
these years.
Let’s wait
until Glen and
Dave take the
test before we
bury all our
hatchets.<br>
</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<p>n<br>
</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<p>Nicholas
Thompson<br>
</p>
<p>Emeritus
Professor of
Ethology and
Psychology<br>
</p>
<p>Clark
University<br>
</p>
<p><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br>
</p>
<p><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,jI9pg2_C34oOCpyabOwNVYM7KJGCPx7H3EupAcE2q9TK2V75UO7IrMX_UOS1TIZ0puSAcbRFu09JGz8yK4gzt6DIJCqNtiA3EEOMsqYT64DoqXJS7TM,&typo=1" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br>
</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<div>
<p><b>From:</b>
Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf
Of </b>Gary
Schiltz<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><b>Sent:</b>
Saturday,
October 10,
2020 5:29 PM<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><b>To:</b>
The Friday
Morning
Applied
Complexity
Coffee Group
<<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [FRIAM]
Political
compass teest<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<p>I was
pretty much
dead center in
the lower left
quadrant,
which was
surprising to
me. I would
have thought I
would be in
the middle of
the whole
graph.<br>
</p>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Sat, Oct
10, 2020 at
4:52 PM George
Duncan <<a href="mailto:gtduncan@gmail.com" target="_blank">gtduncan@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p><span><span><span><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size:18pt">Jon,
I took it. I'm
barely left on
economics and
strongly
libertarian on
social issues</span></span></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span><span><span><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size:18pt"> </span></span></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p>George
Duncan<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p>Emeritus
Professor of
Statistics,
Carnegie
Mellon
University<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fgeorgeduncanart.com%2f&c=E,1,7A1nvLLwvbARh5EsbrcBP_x1ncqDWHW84o2ARPieWFtHxbGsgklMKBqeuNgbEd_czryT4FTxDDbM2mCDHXdJbmd_5-i0Yf4oVpAGGN27uHZ8&typo=1" target="_blank">georgeduncanart.com</a><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>See posts
on Facebook,
Twitter, and
Instagram<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Land: (505)
983-6895 <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Mobile:
(505) 469-4671<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>My art
theme: Dynamic
exposition of
the tension
between matrix
order and
luminous
chaos.<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span><span style="letter-spacing:-0.25pt"><span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size:10pt">"Attempt
what is not
certain.
Certainty may
or may not
come later. It
may then be a
valuable
delusion."</span></span></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
<div>
<p><span><span style="letter-spacing:-0.25pt"><span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size:12pt">From
"Notes to
myself on
beginning a
painting" by
Richard
Diebenkorn. </span></span></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
</div>
<table style="width:85%;border-collapse:collapse" width="85%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p style="margin-bottom:9pt;text-align:center" align="center"><span><span style="color:rgb(93,86,81)"><span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size:10pt">"It's
that
knife-edge of
uncertainty
where we come
alive to our
truest power."
Joanna Macy.</span></span></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt" valign="top"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style="color:white"> </span><br>
</p>
</div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Sat, Oct
10, 2020 at
3:22 PM jon
zingale <<a href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com" target="_blank">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p>I just took
the political
compass test
and surprise
surprise, I am
a<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>left-libertarian.<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Take the
test here if
you are
interested:<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.politicalcompass.org%2ftest&c=E,1,e8hAuyhPdtiZ876M9sd6OmWzNeLJXSYR8MHrODvh3vN2g_nLrK21RY_5OBeUJlK4p0Rzh08Ymx64c4LiIgp7JiIDXXzqbbqx3zHFw_W8CPvxLq3_SnjwgA,,&typo=1" target="_blank">https://www.politicalcompass.org/test</a><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><<a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png</a>><br>
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<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>--<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Sent from:
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